Well in driveway

[brc71]

We just moved into a home beginning of August. The house was built in 1884 and is in good shape. My question involves the placement of the well. The well casing and cap are right smack in the middle of the driveway. Now this house doesn't have much in the way of property to it so well placement would've been an issue but what are peoples' opinions on having a well in the driveway? Just curious. I know I'll have some more questions regarding the pump and tank but I'll wait until I'm home and can get info off of the products. TIA

 

[Speedbump]

One thing I can say for sure. It will be a lot easier to move the driveway than the well. If the garage has to go, that could be a toss up.

I suppose there is a pitless adaptor sticking up out of the ground. It can be removed and the casing shortened and put under the driveway. Wells used to be this way all over years ago. The sanitary are why they came above ground. If you feel sure that rain water etc. can't get into the hole your going to put aroung the casing underground you could do the above. Of coarse you do so at your own risk.

If it were mine. I would cut it off, because I know I would hit it one day.

bob...

 

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[brc71]

This well existed when we moved in. It actually is already cut down and the cap sticks up about 3/4" above the driveway. I'll have to try and attach a picture so you can see my concern. Though the cap is above the driveway, it sits down in a depression that puddles up in a rain. Also the cap appears to be cracked.

 

[Jadnashua]

I'd worry about contaminants getting into my well - oil, antifreeze, gasoline, pesticides, etc, that came off of the car or the lawn. I certainly wouldn't lower it any more. I'd replace that cap, too, as soon as I could. My unprofessional opinion.

 

[brc71]

Can someone explain to me how my well system works. Its a Myers ejecto pump with a Gould jet pump motor. The pump is in my basement. 2 hoses come out of the pump and go through a hole in the basement wall and disappear. There is a pressurized tank...that part I understand. Its the pump and hoses into the wall that I don't quite understand. Sry if this is elementary, wells and well pumps are totally new to me and I don't like things in my house that I don't understand.

 

[Gary Slusser]

Those two lines will be different sizes; the smaller is the pressure to the j-body in the well, the larger is the 'suction' side of the j-body. Those lines connect to the well casing with a pitless adapter. Inside the casing the two lines connect to the other half of the pitless adapter and go down to the j-body that has the foot valve connected to the bottom of it. The foot valve, on average, can be up to about 35' below the j-body. The 'jet' and its nozzle, which causes a vacuum and sucks water into it from the well, is in the j-body, with the nozzle in the larger (suction) line. Up to 70% of the water your pump moves runs in the circle form the pump to the j-body and back to the pump to circle again. Only about 30% is tapped of for the house etc.. Because of that, a submersible is a much better way to move water.

You should install a sealed well casing cap (with air vent) and fill in the depression around the casing; and not drive on the cap. Code calls for all new wells to have the casing up out of the ground 12-18" above ground.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

 

[Speedbump]

That's what would concern me. The rain water washing things like oil, fuel, salt, dog... well you get the idea. If that cap is a pitless adaptor cap, it is probably nothing more that a bonnet and won't keep anything out of the well cracked or not.

I would move the driveway and raise the well back up to a foot or so.

bob...

 

[brc71]

Here are some pics of our well if they spurn any more comments...

http://home.comcast.net/~channing31/wsb/media/443998/site1032.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~channing31/wsb/media/443998/site1031.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~channing31/wsb/media/443998/site1033.JPG

Is it possible to remove the cap and have someone weld or attach some casing to raise it higher from the ground. We don't really need to pull our cars that far into the driveway. I'm thinking that if we can have it raised 10" or so and then maybe put in a wall to keep anyone from accidentally hitting it. TIA

 

[Jadnashua]

If the existing cap is threaded on, then it should be fairly simple to use a THreaded coupling and add whatever pipe height you want. Home Depot can probably cut and thread a piece of pipe to your specs. If they don't carry the diameter and type you need, then you may have to have a plumber or a plumbing supply do it for you (do the supply houses do this? I've never asked.). My unprofessional opinion.

 

[Gary Slusser]

In the closeup pic, if that muddy line on the side under the word Salunga is the heigth of the water, then IMO the water isn't geting up high enough to go over the top of the casiing. The water would have to get up on the side of the cap to 3/16" of the top of the cap to go over the casing; the cap is about 1/4" aluminium. That assumes the top of the casing is cut off square, many are cut off with a torch and are uneven.

To remove the cap, there are three set screw type bolts or allen wrench set screws in the side; I think I see a bolt broken off in the closeup pic. If you can't loosen two of them, the cap will be a bear to get off and you'll have to dig out blacktop to get a drill bit in to drill the bolts out. New same type caps have SS bolts now.

Frankly, if it were mine, I wouldn't bother doing anything but parking the car back from it and watching for oil leaks from the car; unless watching it during rain, the water got up closer to the top of the cap but..

To answer your question, you can dig it out/up and get the cap off and use a Fernco fitting and a piece of 6" sch 40 pvc and extend the casing up some, the fitting will be about 8" IIRC and then put a new cap on it like you have. I"'d then use some blacktop patch or mortor to fill the gap up to 'grade' around the fitting. Go to a pump supply or plumbing supply house and look at the length of the Fernco before you do anything, that will tell you how deep you have to dig down (maybe 8") to get it on and thighten the clamp AND how high above the casing it will be and then how much 6" pvc. I wouldn't want it sticking up there myself, and as I said, I'd leave it. Or, I'd replace the cap with a vented sanitary well seal but they have 4 bolt heads sticking up to trip over and shovel snow around, since I see PA on the cap. The seal isn't a good idea... your cable is in that area that kicks out of round adn I dn't know how you could protect it from damage. Bad idea, scratch the sanitary seal all together and leave it alone if the water doesn't come up to within a 1/2' of the top.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

 

[Speedbump]

The seal sounded good to me Gary, if they bring the wire up in conduit (metal would be better).

I always found a three pound sledge hammer removed those aluminum caps better than any other tools in my toolbox. I never could get those metal allen screws to move after a couple years of sitting in the weather.

But for just for your info brc71, that cap is just sitting over the well. It in no way stops water, bug's or anything else from getting into your well.

bob...

 

[brc71]

Is there really a wire going through that cap? My pump is a jet pump in my basement, so there's no need for a wire at the cap, correct?

 

[Speedbump]

Well, I guess I have giving the wrong advice. That cap is what drillers use with a pitless adaptor and a submersible pump. The protrusion out the side of the cap is where the wire to the pump exits from the casing and goes back in the ground to the house.

So if there is no sub, no wire I think Gary's idea is a good one. You could even leave what you have and put a "blank" well seal in place of the aluminum cap. Once the bolts are tightened down, it would be real hard for water or anything else to enter the casing.

By the way, if you don't know what a well seal is. It is two pieces of round metal, the top one having a flange at the top to set on top of the casing while the bottom piece sets in the casing as does half of the top. Sandwiched between these two pieces of metal is a slab of rubber with four bolts going through all. The bolts are tightened to squeeze the rubber makeing the seal. You can measure the inside diameter of your will and order the proper well seal. Be sure to buy a blank, the rest come with holes in the center etc.

bob...

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

is their a problem with the well??

I think what Gary said is probably best
and just leave it alone....if it is working ok
leave it be.

something else you could do if it makes you
feel better would be to put a cheap seal around that
cap in the form of waterproof silicone... $3. 75

you could even take that lid off and really glue it
down good the the stuff on a dry hot day.....

I suppose it would make a good enough seal
to help keep water out if you laid it on thick enough
and would come off easy enough if it ever need be.

 

[Gary Slusser]

Okay, I too forgot that it is a deep well jet, so no cable under the cap. A sanitary well cap with a vent would work but, 'things' can enter the vent. And it is straight down through the cap. Personally if the water doesn't come up to run under the cap and then down the well, I'd leave it.

Bob, that cap is the standard here in at least my area of PA. And the cable conduit is usually poly tubing cut flush with the casing. The pitless will be from 4' to sometimes if the grade has been raised around the well, 6-8' down.

Gary
Quality Water Associates

 

[brc71]

Thanks for the info, I think for the time being we will leave it. A sealed cap does sound like a good idea but with 2 of the screws being broken off it also sounds like a pain to change. The only real problems we know of with the water are high nitrates (I'll chalk that up to being surrounded by Amish farms and fields) and a high coliform count. We've installed a RO filter to help reduce nitrates and we plan on getting a whole house UV so we don't have to worry about bacteria. The next hurdle is the jet pump in the basement that is so loud you can here it on the 3rd floor.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

jet pumps

jet pumps are a total pain anywyay you look
at them....

In our area you cant hardly even find a well man that will
even touch them.....and every one I have messed with
has turned into a battle --usually with me losing.

they are way too loud, like yours is

they can lose their prime too easily...usually on Sunday mornings.


peopel just seem to endure them because the expence of drilling
a deeper well is usually too much.


I guess your water quality is pretty good, so you will probably do
about the same too.

 

[brc71]

Well, I didn't know that they were such a pain. We've been living here a month and never lost the prime (not that I would know what that is). However, it is old. Its a 1/2 hp Gould jet pump motor mounted to an older Myers "Ejecto-Pump". I'd like to try to get something quieter and more efficient, but I know nothing about the well. I have no idea of depth, flow or anything. I have some pics of the setup in the basement I'll have to post when I get home. How difficult is it to replace just the pump. Can I get the correct pump without knowing the above information? From reading some other posts, it seems that a 1hp pump would be the better way to go. The home is 2 story with 2 full baths, washing machine, dishwasher and kitchen sink. I'll have to get the pictures up so you can get a better idea of what I have. I would really just like the pump to be quieter and to have more consistent water pressure. We use a reverse osmosis filter under the kitchen sink and the higher and more stable the pressure going to it the better. What would be a ballpark figure for replacing the pump...and is there anything else that needs replaced along with the pump? TIA

 

[Speedbump]

Since you say you have nitrates etc. I think you do have rain water getting into the well.

Gary, I suggested a blank well seal with no hole at all. I think this would work just fine and wells don't have to be vented contrary to the belief of many state and county governments.

As for pumps, they shouldn't be noisy. If your motor is older than 5 years it may need a bearing change.

If you do replace the pump, I would go with a 1hp. I would then up the tank size as I'm sure it's too small for a one hp. If it's possible, I would prefer a submersible, but in your case it may not be such a good idea.

I sell a 1hp Myers horizontal jet pump with backpressure control for $332.62.

bob...

 

[Gary Slusser]

The only real problems we know of with the water are high nitrates (I'll chalk that up to being surrounded by Amish farms and fields) and a high coliform count. We've installed a RO filter to help reduce nitrates and we plan on getting a whole house UV so we don't have to worry about bacteria. The next hurdle is the jet pump in the basement that is so loud you can here it on the 3rd floor.

ummm the primary cause of Coliform bacteria and nitrate contamination is the one site (your own) septic system, so quit picking on our Amish and other farmers! lol And be glad you have Amish farmers, they don't use all the pesticides and herbicides other types do.

You really shouldn't be relying on a RO for drinking water because you have Coliform contamination and RO doesn't remove that; actually the filters in the RO can cause an increase in the CFU's (colony forming units) in the product water than in your 'unfiltered' water. And long term exposure to low level Nitrate can be very harmful later in life; it's carcinogenic. While pregnant women and the fetus are harmed and infants until they are at least 6 months old. So stop ingesting your RO water and regular water until you get these problems controlled. There are many ways but a UV light is a good choice as long as the water doesn't have more than the minimum hardness, iron, TDS, H2S, manganese etc. that prevents a UV from working without pretreatment such as a softener.

Spend your money on the water treatment, you can live with the noisey pump for the time being.

Get a water test for those things and post the results. I've treated many wells like yours and I can tell you what will work or not.

Bob, here some of our deep low recovery wells need a vented cap but his can't be very deep.

To replace the pump, I'd suggest a submersible pump using the 1" jet pump line and two line pitless for the cable. It would be an easy install and the best choice for a new pump while providing a conduit for the cable all the way into the well. I've done a few of them. I suggest that his well isn't much more than 100' or so and a 1/2 or 3/4 hp 10-13 gpm would work very well.

Gary
Quality Water Associates