Using stainless VS brass

[BobMane]

Here is the background. as you see in the pic :

I had a fully SS ag mcdonald manifold that I planned to use. Now I will attach how it ended up because of the installer I used.

Now the Harvard gauge is gone and some of the manifold parts he swapped for brass because I had to call him back 3 times for leaks. In the course of all that unexpected drama I read that ss can be ruined if installer creates galling? Is that true? Is it just from misaligned threads or what?

He claimed they were defective parts (ag mcdonald and harvard defective???) . But he also blamed retailers saying they only promote ss to make more money and that it has more call backs than brass. He also said he had previously stopped using ss on his jobs due to leaks. My take away is that he might not have been the greatest plumber and someone else would have nailed the job without issues but i could be wrong. In any case, I will be doing it myself this time I am asking what anyone elses opinion of what I described pertaining to SS?

I am looking at buying another system and want to use ss

 

[WorthFlorida]

I'm no plumber but brass to brass is has been around a long time, brass does not corrode and the fittings will rarely leak. Brass is soft and the threads will conform to its mating surface. SS is steel and hard. Stainless Steel t0 brass can gaul the brass since brass is much softer. The thread, though they are cut to a standard, could be just slightly different due to machine calibration errors. I would go with all brass.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

I had read about stainless to stainless galling. I thought alternating brass and stainless was good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galling says

Alloys such as brass and bronze are often chosen for bearings, bushings, and other sliding applications because of their resistance to galling, as well as other forms of mechanical abrasion.
​

This post on https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/stainless-steel-friction-galling.940689/ may exaggerate--

Brass does not gall against stainless steel.​

 

[BobMane]

I agree that brass is less leak prone. In my case it was SS to SS that was leaking and he solved it by swapping brass as needed. But I am adding a new manifold that has a cycle stop valve (CSV) and the supplier offers an all SS one. If I have to I can get a brass version but the product in SS is great looking which is usually a selling point. I guess I was hoping to hear that others successfully install SS with no leaks if using correct technique. Otherwise how could so many vendors still sell it? Wouldn't they just end up with tons of returns?

https://www.aquascience.net/stainle...with-zs18-stainless-steel-pressure-tank-1-1-4

 

[Reach4]

https://blog.boshart.com/how-to-properly-seal-stainless-steel-fittings-nipples-well-supplies has some suggestions.

A stainless steel pressure tank seems like overkill. The shell is not the usual failure point. A nice painted steel pressure tank with a diaphragm should last many years.

You could get one with the https://cyclestopvalves.com/collections/frontpage/products/custom-pk1a-pside-kick-kit but if you a' la carte it, the WX-102 looks good in the 4.4 gallon size.

 

[John Gayewski]

Here's why SS leaks. Stainless it's many times harder than brass. When you thread ss together there is very very little if any malleability. In order tipp keep it from leaking SS needs to have maximum thread engagement. It needs to be threaded beyond what feels tight. By the time you thread it that deep you've worked all of the dope and tape to nothing. That's when the gauling starts.

I have made whole foods processing systems from stainless, threading the pipe and connecting all of the components. It can be done but it takes diligence and attention to detail. Brass is much more forgiving. The threads smash together and have better performance with "looser" tolerances.

If it where mine I'd want brass. I like stainless to convert from cast iron or steel to brass. Recently I tapped an 8 inch water main with a saddle. The saddle was some sort of cast iron (magnetic). I used 1 stainless nipple from that, then a brass valve. I think that's the best way to come out of a water heater also. The stainless is less likely to crush if it needs spun back out for some reason ten years down the road.

 

[Valveman]

Brass to brass is very forgiving. Brass to SS is usually fairly easy to seal. But SS to SS is almost impossible to seal, I don't care how good a plumber you are. I use Teflon tape with pipe dope over that, which works fairly well. But even then it sometimes takes more than one try. Don't install a check valve on the inset side as shown in the picture. The only check valve you need is on your pump.

The SS tank is cool if you live on the coast or an island. But usually the bladder fails before the shell of any tank. A 6-7 year warranty is better than a SS shell.

Edit;
Also galling will occur with SS to SS unless using anti-seize of some kind, which the teflon and dope do pretty well. Regular anti-seize won't let it gall, but won't seal either. When a SS to SS galls you just can't get it to unscrew. Get out the saw cause it has made one piece out of two.

 

[Taylorjm]

Basically, if you are using stainless to stainless pipes, you need to use large pipe wrenches and use the old theory of tighten them as far as they will go, plus one more.

 

[BobMane]

"Don't install a check valve on the inset side as shown in the picture. The only check valve you need is on your pump."
I dont know if I have a check valve on my pump? Pump has not been pulled since I got well working. Well was drilled in 2006 and left to sit till I bought it. I just ran elec and poly and the system works great as is but dont know about if there is a cv. Kind of crazy they would sell the set up with one included!

Other than that yes I admit I just like the looks of the ss mani and tank. I might sell the house so that matters. Sounds like it would be much easier using brass though.

 

[Reach4]

I dont know if I have a check valve on my pump?

If you did not have a check valve in the system somewhere, when the pump shut off, water would go backwards thru the pump.

 

[BobMane]

Is that to say that since my system works fine right now I must have one in the well shaft?

 

[Reach4]

Is that to say that since my system works fine right now I must have one in the well shaft?

You have one somewhere, and ideally it will be in the pump or just below the pump. That way your piping stays full and pressurized, and will not suck in contaminates if there were a possible leak. If there were a small leak, the pump would cycle, but the piping and pitless would stay pressurized

 

[BobMane]

[QUOTE="valveman, post: 701428, member: 5820"I use Teflon tape with pipe dope over that, which works fairly well. But even then it sometimes takes more than one try. [/QUOTE]
How many tries does it take before the fitting is considered "bad". I mean with SS can it be rewrapped and doped over and over till it doesn't leak or do you only get one try before it "goes bad".

 

[Fitter30]

For stainless had good luck with a nickel filled telfon tape and letting the threads cool when they starting to get tight and tighten again then repeat. X-pando thread compound works great if can let sit for 24hours before testing of filling system.

 

[BobMane]

For stainless had good luck with a nickel filled telfon tape and letting the threads cool when they starting to get tight and tighten again then repeat. X-pando thread compound works great if can let sit for 24hours before testing of filling system.

So you give them an initial tightening then wait? How long do you wait. And how many total tightening sessions would make it 100%?

 

[Fitter30]

So you give them an initial tightening then wait? How long do you wait. And how many total tightening sessions would make it 100%?

Wait wait wait 10 to 30 seconds put your finger on it 2" 30 seconds. Heat moves warmer to cooler

 

[BobMane]

Basically, if you are using stainless to stainless pipes, you need to use large pipe wrenches and use the old theory of tighten them as far as they will go, plus one more.

Does anyone have links to the exact wrenches I need to buy? The plumber who failed with the SS had super giant wrenches I assume they would be something like that?

 

[Fitter30]

Does anyone have links to the exact wrenches I need to buy? The plumber who failed with the SS had super giant wrenches I assume they would be something like that?

Don't need big wrenches over 14" pipe is 1 /2 or 3/4* "wrenches are all about leverage if can push down there more power than pulling forward. Always use a hold back wrench a fitting that was just tighten put a wrench on that when tightening another fitting. So it do turn.
With x- pando degreased fittings take two 1/2" nipples and a coupling screw them together with x-pando with 10" adjustable wrench wait 24 hours and try to take them apart before 18" pipe wrench unless your young and tough.

 

[BobMane]

I have been looking at adding iron treatment on the right side of the Pressure Switch due to staining. I was told I could add a Tee on the left side of the Pressure Switch (for example, by cutting into that black poly you see on the left) and from that tee I would run my outdoor water. I was considering trying to go all PVC fittings to get away from the metal fittings. Does anyone know what type of pvc tee fitting would work there on that black 1 1/4 poly?

 

[John Gayewski]

BarbXSocket