Toilet flange size/height

[MLB22]

After a fresh water leak I am nearing completion of a complete 2nd story bath remodel.
I have concerns- with the height and opening size of the toilet flange.
a) before remodel was ceramic tile, 1/2 cement board ,on 3/4 " T/G OSB on engineered floor joist 19.2" OC
b) now removed tile and CBU - added 1/2 plywood, 1/8 ditra, new tile ( with 1/2 square notch trowel)

so the flange ( not level) sits about even with finished tile level a bit below in some spots.

So I thought no big deal get a thick wax ring with horn and while at the store I also purchased a "rubber" sleeve/spacer no wax connection solution.

All good until time for install - the sleeve will not fit down into the flange - WTH? It seen the opening in the flange is about 2.5" - I never noticed before

Seems someone has added a flange into the existing flange - perhaps to raise it for the previous tile job???

I think the thing is PVC weld glued into the original flange.
Use of the the rubber kit seems to be out question.

I am worried I will not get a good seal.
If I use the wax ring with horn it is a very tight fit into flange opening - not likely i can be that precise when setting the toilet.

what is the best solution?
1) saw out the second flange and use flange extender on original
2)bust open the (new) ceiling below remove both flanges and and repipe a proper height flange
or
3) can I just us an extender on the flange in a flange to get above floor height.

please advise - I really do not want a leaking toilet to mess up this remodel and the one in the bath room below ( as it did to cause to original remodel!)
I will try to post pics to be worth a 1000 words...

 

[Reach4]

I will try to post pics to be worth a 100 words...

Yes. That will be informative.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jadnashua]

One reason why seals with a funnel aren't always the best idea...on some flanges, the horn or funnel doesn't have enough room, and pushing it down can literally cause it to collapse and create a major obstruction.

It sounds like you may have a 3" pipe and they used an internal mounted flange...while it can work, it generally isn't recommended except possibly on a 4" pipe. The outlet of a typical toilet is a bit over 2", but the toilet horn is larger, and still needs to fit. Normally, it doesn't project beneath the toilet, but can be a problem if the flange sits too high. Because your flange is essentially flush with the floor, to get a good seal, you will likely need either a jumbo wax ring, or two. Terry's choice in this situation is to use one with a horn on top of a 'standard' one below. The horn helps to keep the two aligned, and being higher, isn't as often impacted by the ID of a flange.

 

[MLB22]

Thank you for your reply. Reality is that there is a second flange glued into the original flange - my concern is now the opening of the flange is a mere 2.5 inches - what if, when setting the bowl it get a bit misaligned and the toilet horn is not properly lined up - it will probably leak

 

[MLB22]

here is some added pictorial information

 

[Reach4]

Reality is that there is a second flange glued into the original flange

Are you sure that upper piece is glued in? Maybe it is just held in by screws. It was a form of repair ring maybe.

Anyway, yes, if that is glued in, you would want the toilet centered. It is unlikely to leak, because you will pack that recessed area around the 2.5 inch hole with wax. Form it into place. Use more than one ring. Nitrile gloves are good to keep you from having to clean the wax off of your hands.

I wonder how DANCO Model 10672X Hydroseat would work for you. It may fit your needs. Read up on it.

 

[Jadnashua]

IMHO, narrowing the flange hole to 2.5" is just asking for clogs. Some toilets rely on having a larger hole to make that final turn into the flange. Some better performing toilets make that turn earlier and don't try to rely on the flange to do it. For example, take a look at this spec sheet from a Kohler toilet where it tries to turn a sharp 90-degree turn right at the flange https://www.us.kohler.com/webassets/kpna/catalog/pdf/en/K-3828_spec.pdf verses this Toto toilet where it is already pointing straight down when it gets there https://www.totousa.com/filemanager_uploads/product_assets/SS-00973_CST743EN.pdf
the design does make a difference, and to work right, they expect a minimum of a 3" ID pipe opening at the flange. The length and stiffness of the stool will make a big difference as to whether it will work for you or not, but a well designed toilet can really help.

I'd seriously consider cracking the ceiling below, and redoing that with a properly placed flange.

 

[MLB22]

i called a pro plumber out to have a look - he shook his head and was a bit perplexed at the set up but in the end suggested a 2x wax ring - probably would have been ok but Im not sure i would have slept at night and i never do anything the easy way.

So I took my multi tool to the top flange and carefully worked to "deconstruct" it after picking at it a bit I could see what I had and cut the top off the second(top) flange. Then I carefully sawed the fitting out of the pipe - which happened to be the street side of a 90. So the original flange was pvc glued to the outside of the street 90. No removing that with the room I had.

So I used a solution called "set-rite" now owned by oatey. Check youtube to see the video by the inventor ( before Oatey buy out) this thing is genius! it is UPC approved - I for one am very confident in the repair.
Took some extra time to saw out second flange - but most people would not have to deal with that.

here is link
https://www.amazon.com/Toilet-Exten...=8-1&keywords=set+rite+toilet+flange+extender

I highly suggest to find the You tube - the guy give great instructions how to use the kit a variety of situations - pvc, cast iron etc

 

[MLB22]

here is youtube link

or this one ( but I have not watched this one)