Shower valve setup: Please help!...

[drkona]

Dear Group,
This is my first post. I have been searching for help and find you all w/ so much info I am hoping you can help.

I am building a master bath shower. The plumber is ready to "rough in" and wants me to decide on what shower system I desire.

What I want(i think) is:
#1: Overhead rainshower head
#2: Handheld on a wallbar
I also considered just a standard wall mount showerhead...but figure the handheld can serve that function...agree?

MY QUESTION:

I want to have separate control of VOLUME of each of these showerheads. I would like to have the rainshower running and be able to INDEPENDENTLY turn on the handshower *without* losing volume/pressure in the overhead rainhead. I would also like to have the temperature control separate of the volume control....

I am sooo CONFUSED about ways to accomplish this. I have read about thermostatic control valves that control the temperature...and then you buy separate volume control knobs for each head. I have read about combination valves(like MOENTROL?) where it is all in one...but it sounds like you would drop pressure/volume as you switch between heads?

What I am reading is that to maintain Volume/Pressure I want to bring 3/4" pipe to a rough in valve and then hopefully get 3/4" all the way to the showerheads?? Is that right?

Could you folks PLEASE outline *exactly* what product I need to buy(brand/model#). I don't care what brand/trim. I can find something I like in any brand. I would prefer if it was an all-in-one product that had temp/volume knobs all in one VS. having multiple knobs all over a wall..I just want to be able to tell the plumber what I need to accomplish this result.

Thank you so much,
DRK

 

[Geniescience]

most of your answers

you are right it is confusing at first.
-You are right you do want to stay with 3/4" pipe all the way. Many people will say, "no need" but keep it 3/4" anyway, for quality and quieter flow.
-You are right not to want to have knobs all over the walls. (No need to show off, in that way. )
-You are right that, depending on your house's existing plumbing, pressure, flow, you may -- or may not -- feel a reduction in the rain shower when you turn on the handheld.

... would drop pressure/volume as you switch ...

I wouldn't worry about this last point. A rain shower is NOT a high-pressure shower trying to blast your muscles or skin, so you won't care about a little reduction in its flow. It's never significant when you use 3/4" pipe everywhere.

I also considered just a standard wall mount showerhead...but figure the handheld can serve that function...agree?

Yes. Although a wall-mount (or ceiling mount) can blast you with pulsing hot water more than a handheld can. Because a handheld has a long skinny tube, and that reduces the flow a lot. Strength of flow doesn't seem to be your priority. It is actually a good thing to have just enough hot water to shower under and not a torrent.

... *exactly* what product I need to buy(brand/model#) .... prefer if it was an all-in-one product that had temp/volume knobs all in one ....

Can you place the handles in an alcove or niche so you don't have to see them every time you walk past? Assuming this is a custom shower build.

Looks like you'll need a set of two handles to turn on either one or the other or both. There could be a single handle that has THREE positions, but I have never seen it. Three because you said only Either A alone or A+B or Both OFF.

Many more solutions still to be outlined, by others here. Stay tuned, drKona.

david
p.s. if you find exactly what you want, but only in 1/2" diameter pipe, go ahead with it. It'll still work very well. A single rain shower and a handheld is no big draw. You can also increase pipe back to 3/4" after reducing to 1/2" to get into the valve and out.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[drkona]

Thanks, geniscience.
I would like to be able to be able to run A or B, A+B, on/off. My water pressure from the street is 48#. I have noticed that the in-house P really drops if you open 2 faucets at same time...eg: filling tub and try to wash hands in sink...filling washer and try to turn on another faucet.

Is this what I need:

http://www.moen.com/browsecatalog/c...=1523&category=2290&finish=44&crow=1&sku=3320

 

[Geniescience]

ask experienced plumbers

Your other thread https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12021 has - I suppose - all the same information, although I haven't read it to compare...

So far, hj responded. He is the right person to ask. And others who have experience with lot of different models of these "devices", up close

Post the link to this thread over there too, just as I posted the link to that one here. Hopefully one thread will die out. You can't run two simultaneously and expect anyone to read both simulaneously, except for one or two very determined people.

Which valve, now, to pick? I cannot get into that level of detail. I don't buy them, or install them, every day, every week, every month, etc. I've told you as much as I can, within reason.

If no-one responds in the next few days, send a private message to someone who you figure will know an answer.

Repeat your requirements in each post, as things change.

It now appears you want FOUR positions: either
A only ON, or
B only ON, or
A+B both ON, or
A+B both OFF.
- AFAIK this will require two separate handles.

Someone might know of a single handle that has four positions. I'm eager to know too.

david

 

[Techno Tim]

Here are some great Shower controls that might help!

There are some very unusual shower controls here on my site don,t know whether you would like them but they might help.

This one is thermostatic(middle handle) with a two way diverter on the top handle and a what I would call a stop Cock on the bottom it thereefore can be used to operate two items at the same time with the highest flow rate being acheived via the bottom handle as the Cartridge inside has a larger bore and using the top handle to choose which of two other outlets could be used.

http://www.tapstore.com/acatalog/copy_of__SL3_Three_Control_Shower_Valve.html

Also there is another type I do that has a thermostat handle on the bottom and a diverter that can operate 5 ways but only a choice between which one to use. unless you add the seperate shut off valve to the bottom spare outlet see link below.

http://www.tapstore.com/acatalog/copy_of_Kusasi_SL_Shut_Off_Valve.html



http://www.tapstore.com/acatalog/copy_of_copy_of_Kusasi_valve_with_5_way_diverter.html

I am sorry I am not totally familar with your terminology but I hope that I have understood what you are trying too acheive.

This is the British way but they are all 3/4" and 1/2" connections.

 

[drkona]

Sorry to post the same in 2 places...just trying to figure this out....
DRK

 

[Dan Pick]

Most times simple is better

An easy way would be to plumb (2) seperate shower valves

 

[AlwaysInHotWater]

Check out this set-up. http://neatitems.com/images/in_wall_diverter.JPG The valve operates both the slide rail shower and the wall shower (could just as easily be an overhead). The mixer valve and the in-wall diverter valve are made by Grohe. This will run one or the other, not both at the same time.

I think the advice to plumb in 2 mixers might be the way to go though if you want to run both heads at the same time. Otherwise you might find the temp setting on a shared mixer is right for one of the heads but too cold or too hot for the other head.

 

[Geniescience]

single handle for 6 positions

i found a Kohler product that does what you want. I cannot see it on their web site, so good luck with that.

it is a shower handle in the Memoirs series. You can turn it 360 degrees and keep turning it forever in any one direction, and while doing so you cycle through SIX positions.
A
A+B
B
B+C
C
C+A
... where A, B, C are the three shower things you have put on those circuits, like for example a rainshower head, a handshower, and a bunch of wall sprays.

Then, you still need two visible controls (positioned somewhere else far away if you wish) to set a temperature and to turn pressure off and on or to set it halfway...

I don't know if you can use other trim than the Memoirs trim, which is big and square. Find out and post here.

David