Retiling or a drainage problem?

[HChess]

We had a leak from the second floor bathroom into our downstairs. Because of cabinet access to our piping inside the wall, I can see that it looks as though our liner was overflowing. When we block the drain and add water, eventually the leak flows past what looks to be the liner. Our shower slope is off, so I thought I might repair the slope, retile, and regrout, but now I'm reading about blocked weep holes and I can't even see them. My drain just looks like a strainer and a base. There is nothing else, I don't think. Could this be right? What should I actually do to fix this? I think this might need more than a retile.
Picture below. Thanks for any and all help!

 

[WorthFlorida]

Don't know what you mean blocked weep holes, but seeing the condition of the grout lines, water was seeping through the grout and mortar bed and the rubber membrane probably failed if there is one. Depending the the age of the home, second floor self made shower pans were poorly done at one time. But during a shower use the water is not filling up the pan is it? There probably isn't a waterproof membrane from the wall to the shower pan, so your leak is coming through the seam but only when you overflow the pan. It could be slowing leaking as the water runs down the tiled wall.

The wall tile grout can also be failing. With continuous use shower stalls, the grout may have a life of ten years or less. Florida has fairly soft water that slowly dissolves the grout joints and they become porous. I remodeled my 1st floor shower years ago and it was amazing how much water was behind the tiles both on the floor and walls. The 2x4 wall was rotting away. I replaced it with pressure treated wood. Everyone needs to check on the grout over any tub and shower. If it looks worn out or washed out, it is very easy regrout over the old.

To see where the leak is you'll need to open up the ceiling below. Probably time to redo and open the walls around the shower to get it up to the latest standards.

Check out this file and search on "shower". See page 25.
http://www.floridabuilding.org/fbc/...mmission_education_poc/444/444-1-MATERIAL.pdf

Walls and floors in shower and tub spaces must be of a nonabsorbent surface material that extends at least 6 feet above the floor.(FBC- Residential R307.2 Bathtub and shower spaces.)

Such material cannot be water-resistant gypsum board. Although water-resistant gypsum board is permitted for use as a backer for tiles or wall panels in showers and tubs, it cannot be installed over the vapor retarder, as this would create a waterproof membrane on both sides of the gypsum board, trapping moisture and ultimately causing it to fail. Ideally, gypsum board should not be used in wet areas. (FBC- Residential R702.3.8 Water-resistant gypsum backing board & R702.3.8.1 Limitations.)

 

[Sponsor]

 

[HChess]

Thank you so much for your advice. I was thinking along those same lines.

 

[Jadnashua]

FIrst off, a shower pan should be water tight prior to the installation of tile. Neither tile nor grout is considered the waterproofing in a shower, they're a decorative, wear surface.

There are numerous, industry approved methods to building a leak-proof, reliable shower. The industry bible is the TCNA handbook that gets updated annually to account for new products/methods. Pick one of those in that handbook, and execute it properly, and you'll not have any issues with your shower (well, if you mess up the plumbing, that could still be an issue!).

In a conventional shower, water WILL get beneath the tile and percolate down to the waterproofing layer. Depending on the waterproofing method utilized, when a clamping drain is used, there must be a way for that moisture to escape, and that's through weep holes in the base of the drain. If you choose a surface applied sheet membrane, typically, those drains do not have weep holes, since there's just the thinset and tile on top rather than an inch+ of porous 'deck mud' (a sand:cement layer in approximately a ratio of 5:1 which is good in compression, but not as good otherwise...it's quite porous to allow that moisture to drain out if the weep holes are there and not clogged).

Probably the two biggest mistakes made in building a conventional shower are poking holes below 2" above the top of the curb - especially IN the curb; and, putting the waterproofing flat on the floor where the plumbing code calls for it to be sloped to the drain. Lots of other things can cause a failure or poor performance in a shower.

The top surface (and the waterproofing - not the same thing!) should have a minimum of 1/4" per foot slope to the drain.

To redo the pan and curb properly, and that's assuming the rest of the thing was done right, not likely, is almost as much work as tearing it all out and starting over. You'll likely find that the subflooring has water damage that needs to be addressed, as well.

 

[Russ13]

I have been watching a lot of videos from a guy named Bob Doyle of Starrtile. He's out of GA and is really thorough in his explanation(s) of shower failures. There are many of his videos so you would have to go through and find the one that works for you. Like I said he is VERY thorough in his explanations, so you have to be patient, but I like the thoroughness of it. There is also another good tile channel called "tilemasterga". He is also, very good.

 

[Jadnashua]

I'm not positive, but that doesn't look like a proper clamping drain used in a conventional shower.

A conventional shower build is made up of the following layers:
- a presloped mortar bed
- a liner (no holes in it below 2" above the top of the drain, and sealed to the lower section of the clamping drain)
- a setting bed nominally somewhere in the order of 1" thick +-maybe 1/4" or so - even thickness as it follows the slope of the preslope below to maintain the minimum of 1/4" per foot slope to the drain
- thinset
- tile

It looks like that drain is a simple floor drain with no provisions for a liner. Now, FL has some weird rules that don't follow the national guidelines...IMHO, doesn't make it right.