Quiet Check Valve Backflow

[Bert Lee]

I wanted to love these and almost do but I seem to have an issue that I am not 100% sure is right. I have double sumps in my basement, main and backup. Main has a Zoeller M63 (brand new) and the back up is a 2013 Zoeller M98. Both with fresh installs and factory recommended weep holes in the correct location. I purchased two of these to replace the cheap and failing check valves that had been there a while. They had a terrible backflow issue and would re-allow a lot of pumped water to renter the sump. I expected these to stop that problem. But it did not 100% as the linked video shows. At the end of the pumping cycle the valve does not instantly positively close as I have see in other videos. It does what you see in my case. Noisy, gurgling and annoying to be honest.

Both pumps do the same thing.

I also get this odd surging at the end of the pumping cycle sometimes, sounds like small crashing or boat wake waves that cycles the pump on and off, 5-6 times, seemingly sucking the last bits.

I welcome any comments on what the cause might be, similar experiences or remedies.

 

[Valveman]

Moving to pluming where there are some experts on sump pumps.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[WorthFlorida]

Try adjusting the water height so it doesn't expose the impeller to air when shutting off and use a spring loaded check valve. I'm no expert but I had a home in Illinois with two sumps and spring loaded check valve always worked. You may hear a thump when the valve closes. In Florida for irrigation wells, these are used all the time and I've used both brass and PVC. Brass gets very expensive. The type shown in the video rely on gravity and lower water pressure below the flapper to close. It not always the case as you found out.

 

[Bert Lee]

Try adjusting the water height so it doesn't expose the impeller to air when shutting off and use a spring loaded check valve. I'm no expert but I had a home in Illinois with two sumps and spring loaded check valve always worked. You may hear a thump when the valve closes. In Florida for irrigation wells, these are used all the time and I've used both brass and PVC. Brass gets very expensive. The type shown in the video rely on gravity and lower water pressure below the flapper to close. It not always the case as you found out.

Well, the check valve I have does have a spring loaded flap, and actually touts a "1/2 # spring" too, pretty stout really. And from what I can tell the Zoeller M63 pump I have does not have an adjustable float level unless there is a trick I am not aware of. Wondering if the direction of my weep hole in the discharge pipe has any effect in stirring the water close to the pump intake?

 

[Bert Lee]

I believe I have discovered the reason for this issue. I have two separate drain lines, one primary and one backup that run from my house to the end of my property, probably over 100' in total. And they are both only 1.5" PVC. I am reading they should have been at least 3" and preferably 4". So, the 1.5" pipe is completely full during the pumping cycle as I can see by the exiting water stream at the far end. When the pump shuts off that 100' of draining water is actually pulling that check valve open and the ensuing battle for equilibrium of water to air creates that cycle of simultaneous sucking and draining. Bad deal. Short of digging up all the 1.5" and replacing with a single 4" next year I now need some direction on adding the proper venting that would correct this in the short term. The only complicating factor for me is that both lines exit the basement directly underground so I have no visible exterior access to those unless I dig to them. Is it possible to connect both pumps to both lines with a "Y" so that both exit drain pipes share the load, effectively less water per pipe per cycle?

 

[WorthFlorida]

Before you start digging up 100 ft of pipe, try using an air and vacuum release. This site has lots of literature on it and where to place them. I would suggest right outside your basement wall. When I maintained a church I had a 7.5HP submersible irrigation pump feeding about 2000 feet of 3" PVC pipe in a loop that was used as a main to feed the 12 acres for irrigation. There was a air release vacuum valve about 1/2 way around the property. If you happen to be near the valve when the irrigation turn on or off, you could hear it sucking in air.

https://www.flomatic.com/valves/air...elease-valves-clean-water/index.asp?valveid=3

 

[Bert Lee]

Before you start digging up 100 ft of pipe, try using an air and vacuum release. This site has lots of literature on it and where to place them. I would suggest right outside your basement wall. When I maintained a church I had a 7.5HP submersible irrigation pump feeding about 2000 feet of 3" PVC pipe in a loop that was used as a main to feed the 12 acres for irrigation. There was a air release vacuum valve about 1/2 way around the property. If you happen to be near the valve when the irrigation turn on or off, you could hear it sucking in air.

https://www.flomatic.com/valves/air...elease-valves-clean-water/index.asp?valveid=3

Thank you. I had a discussion with a qualified friend this afternoon who also mentioned a similar solution with a AAV, like an Oatey Sure Vent, on the basement side of the outgoing discharge pipe. Certainly a cheap and easy thing to try. I still think the concept of having a separate lines the entire length of the run for each pump is not the best idea and would like to now utilize both of those lines feed from wither pump. That would split the load probably sufficiently enough in conjunction with an AV to solve all issues. Except the amount of time the pump is actually running. With the current volume of incoming ground water its been on one minute, off one minute, over and over, endlessly. Also wondering if a pedestal pump might be a better option in this situation because of it's longer float travel, vs the short travel of the submersible. That should cycle at least a 3x less often with a slightly longer pumping on cycle.