Plumber keeps failing inspection (Long sob)

[Batty1]

I hired a local kitchen remodeling company and everything has been good up until the plumber (who) was suppose to come into my house to look at the waste pipe in kitchen and see if the pipe could go under my house INSTEAD of through my wall (this wall is exterior wall) and instead of assessing the situation (he never went under the house) he just started chopping into the studs and has failed inspection 3 times since.

My Kitchen Designer accused me of making her plumber fail inspection because I asked questions, my questions had no baring on his failing inspection since he failed before I asked my questions and anyway this is my house I can ask any question I like in order to put my mind at ease.

(1st) inspection failed because of poor use of screws / pipe not flush (he needed to hack more of the notches out) very little room left to hack.

(2nd) inspection failed because he failed to use enough screws in the triple stud and inspector told him to call him when he finished (Inspector gave his number) the plumber LEFT without fixing the screws and the inspector came back. The plumber was on speaker phone with inspector at this time and said "Oh I thought I was good" inspector said NO you failed, he said sorry I can't come back I'm and hour away now. He was told to reschedule inspection once repair is done. Inspector commented that the area that was ok prior to fix is now sticking out.

(3rd) failed inspection.......Inspector called plumber before showing up and asked him about a purchase receipt for stud shoes, he had no receipt. Inspector showed up finally and told him YOU FAILED AGAIN for improper screws being used according to manufacturing requirements (He never fixed the screws and were not correct screws per manufacturer).... After he had failed I mentioned to inspector that the pipe looks like it's going to crack and looks bowed (Area near 1st stud and triple stud) which plumber never touched at the time of first inspection. Inspector said as he got close to looked down said yes it is bending and said to plumber it would be best to cut your loss and do what the client wanted before all this and go under the house BECAUSE if you keep hacking at the studs your going to end up in engineering and building territory because your very close to this now and to sister up cut beams. The Plumber never heard of stud shoes! What would you do ask for new plumber and attempt to notch out more or sister up the studs and go under the house (I have a crawl space)?

 

[Kreemoweet]

That's just pitiful. 2-inch drains are really not compatible with 2x4 framing. I assume none of those walls are load-bearing;
if so, the inspector is being extra-special-leniant. Plumbing walls should have 2x6 framing. At a minimum. I would
suspect that anyone who knows not the code rules and methods for framing member pipe penetrations is really not a plumber.

As you say, it would have been better to go under the floor. But then the 'plumber' would have to deal with the spideys ...

 

[Sponsor]

 

[ShelzMike]

That's just pitiful. 2-inch drains are really not compatible with 2x4 framing.

I understand that the walls are better if 2 x 6 for 2" pipe, but what does one do when you have to replumb in an older house that only has 2 x 4 studs? Are you suggesting that to run, say maybe through 2 or 3 studs, you should tear an entire wall our or part of it and make it an ugly bump out? Is that really required? Seems totally unreasonable. That being said, I know that is not what we are seeing here, but just curious about that statement.

 

[Batty1]

Hi everyone
This plumber used a 1.5 inch pvc pipe not a 2 inch, the old pipe he removed was 2 inch. This wall is load bearing but it's believed that the 3 studs might be holding up a window we had removed during this project.

The removed window looked into the garage and (garage was added after the house was built.)

 

[Chucky_ott]

Any reason why that pipe couldn't have stayed on the outside of the wall like it was before? Open cabinets I assume?

In any case, those 3 sistered studs were sistered for a reason. They could act as a column to hold up a beam. Or they may be part of a king/jack stud assembly on the side of a window like you mention. But you'd typically see only two studs, not three. The other studs may be cripple studs under a window like you say but you can't tell from the pics.

 

[Sylvan]

Seems like a long run on the waste line before there is a vent pipe

Normally a trap should be within 2 feet of the fixture and the vent 2 feet max from the trap

 

[Plumber69]

Seems like a long run on the waste line before there is a vent pipe

Normally a trap should be within 2 feet of the fixture and the vent 2 feet max from the trap

no, don't listen to this guy. should of rolled it in tight with cabinet. mj clamp are great for this. It's under the sink, do you show your friends it?

 

[Batty1]

Any reason why that pipe couldn't have stayed on the outside of the wall like it was before? Open cabinets I assume?

In any case, those 3 sistered studs were sistered for a reason. They could act as a column to hold up a beam. Or they may be part of a king/jack stud assembly on the side of a window like you mention. But you'd typically see only two studs, not three. The other studs may be cripple studs under a window like you say but you can't tell from the pics.

Hello, It was discussed numerous times to take the drain pipe under the house not through the wall and YES I could have left the pipe but it would pose the same issues as before makes two cabinets practically unusable because of pipe running through them and I'm only working with 9x11 galley kitchen as it is. I was willing to pay more to run this plumbing under the house that certainly was not the issue and can't explain why he chose the route he did.

 

[Batty1]

Seems like a long run on the waste line before there is a vent pipe

Normally a trap should be within 2 feet of the fixture and the vent 2 feet max from the trap

I can't control that this house was built in 1959 and I guess this was allowed. I have never had a draining problem in 16yrs.

 

[Batty1]

no, don't listen to this guy. should of rolled it in tight with cabinet. mj clamp are great for this. It's under the sink, do you show your friends it?

Yes, and most are mortified that he chopped into the studs. Damage is done and I'm at a loss on how to fix this mess.

 

[Batty1]

no, don't listen to this guy. should of rolled it in tight with cabinet. mj clamp are great for this. It's under the sink, do you show your friends it?

We can't clamp waste line to wall not enough room for base cabinets ......My kitchen is 9x11 galley with both ends opening into other rooms, so bumping out the cabinets would mess with walkway.

 

[Batty1]

Update: Had a 4th plumbing inspection (different plumbing co) and they put the waste line under the house and it past but now my kitchen remodeling company is forced to get a building permit in order to proceed with fixing the damage to my studs and they are now forced into hiring a framing company instead of using their laborer. It's amazing that one person can cause so much damage, it's sad to think I'm not the first victim.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Update: Had a 4th plumbing inspection (different plumbing co) and they put the waste line under the house and it past but now my kitchen remodeling company is forced to get a building permit in order to proceed with fixing the damage to my studs and they are now forced into hiring a framing company instead of using their laborer. It's amazing that one person can cause so much damage, it's sad to think I'm not the first victim.

I know from personal experiance that drilling studs especially kingstuds can open up problems. those stud shoes are often not accepted. Let me tell you that this is an ongoing problem there is a code violation in almost every fix . I guess you wound up running a new waste line underfloor but then how did you run the vent? Im guessing a Trailer vent or studor vent. Those were illegal in my area {though people installed them} dont know if code allows them but have allways been conscidered kinda scabby work. Cant really tell you why. Sounds like this whole mess was done in order to keep the pipe from being outside the wall. I think it shoulda been left tight against drywall. gotta love a window over a kitchen sink
BTW its good you offered to pay more because it was a lot more work to go under hous as opposed to leaving everything as it was.

 

[Batty1]

I know from personal experiance that drilling studs especially kingstuds can open up problems. those stud shoes are often not accepted. Let me tell you that this is an ongoing problem there is a code violation in almost every fix . I guess you wound up running a new waste line underfloor but then how did you run the vent? Im guessing a Trailer vent or studor vent. Those were illegal in my area {though people installed them} dont know if code allows them but have allways been conscidered kinda scabby work. Cant really tell you why. Sounds like this whole mess was done in order to keep the pipe from being outside the wall. I think it shoulda been left tight against drywall. gotta love a window over a kitchen sink
BTW its good you offered to pay more because it was a lot more work to go under hous as opposed to leaving everything as it was.

Hi
The studor vent is legal in my area and pretty standard, so that’s good news for me.

I removed the window in the kitchen because it has probably not function as a window in over 30 years and looked into the garage, so really no view unless you like looking at your car and allows me to have another cabinet in and already small kitchen.

I wish I had left the drain in it’s original place after all this mess although leaving it in place would certainly make a few of my draws pretty unusable and I didn’t have enough room to move cabinets away from wall to accommodate pipe it would interfere with walk way (galley kitchen). My new wall looks great and I see the light at the end of this annoying remodel.