Please help! How to remove soldered toilet flange

[Opifex]

I was trying to remove one of the fixed closet bolts, when it broke off. I've used PB Blaster and it still won't budge. Argh. My toilet flange is soldered into place, but it also looks like the solder has filled a fairly substantial gap between the flange and the iron pipe. How the heck do I get this old flange off?!

 

[Reach4]

First, be sure you have to remove it. Is that hole in your picture where the old closet bolt was, or are the closet bolts maybe in slots? Perhaps you could put one of various type of repair flange in place to hold the closet bolts.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index....the-band-of-lead-around-cast-iron-pipe.39864/ talks about removal. Drill out a bunch of the lead, and pry the flange off. That is the stage where that thread picks up-- the flange has been pried off, and left some lead.

There are closet flanges that can clamp on to that pipe once the flange part is off. Don't go tearing out that pipe prematurely. I am not a plumber.

 

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[Opifex]

Hi Reach. The closet bolts are fixed position. One came out no problem, but the other was rusted and so broke off inside the threaded hole. I'm letting it soak in PB Blaster at the moment. Sigh.... If it aint broke, don't fix it!

I wonder, do you think I could just cut the bolt out so the flange is flush, and then use one of these 1/4" Oatey spacers or something similar? I won't be able to secure the spacer to the subfloor, but I could glue it down with silicone. Thoughts?

 

[Reach4]

People here generally have a poor opinion on spacers on top of a flange. If I did use spacers, I would put wax or silicone under and between the spacers. How about Danco Hydro Seat? It is like a repair ring with a tail. Use wax ring under it on the cast iron flange.

If you used one of these https://www.siouxchief.com/products/drainage/residential/closet-flanges/spacer-repair/ringer you would have to drill holes to hold it down to the cast iron. Drilling cast iron is said to not be easy. That ring, like other repair rings, holds the closet bolts down.

Or just use a PASCO 21013 or Superior 21015. They are repair rings with mounting tabs outside plus holes in the usual places. They provide mounting for the closet bolts. Those would be installed after you got flooring close enough to the closet flange. You could use some wax rings on the cast iron, depending on the altitude of the flange with respect to the floor. Note that when using wax, don't de-compress wax, even to add shims. Position the shims before dropping the toilet all of the way.

What is the altitude difference between the floor top and the flange top?

 

[Opifex]

Looking at these repair rings, now I'm thinking neither will work because they won't sit flat on account of the closet bolt between the ring and the existing flange.

 

[Opifex]

Man, I am so bummed that bolt broke. I picked up a repair ring at the hardware store. If I install it as shown in the attached picture, do you think I can use the Fluidmaster wax-free seal? I'm a little uncomfortable with the gap between the old flange and the ring. If I have it sitting directly on top of the old flange, then the closet bolts won't freely move.

I know I could also install the HydroSeat, but I already bought this darn ring and ripped off the sticker, so I can't return it. It was fairly spendy.

 

[Houptee]

Use a punch make a dimple dead center of broken bolt then drill small hole thru it, then go up to a larger bit then heat it with a torch and use bolt extractor tool gently do not break off the extractor or you are screwed they are hardened steel. If that doesnt work cant you just heat the solder all around the ring with a torch and pull it off?

 

[Reach4]

If I install it as shown in the attached picture, do you think I can use the Fluidmaster wax-free seal? I'm a little uncomfortable with the gap between the old flange and the ring.

I don't know. I don't know how that would work. Maybe fine. Maybe consider wax on flange, then repair flange, then waxless seal atop that?

 

[Opifex]

Well I'm an idiot. Yep, no two ways about it. I tried one of those cheapie bolt extractor tools this morning, but my adjustable wrench kept sliding off. Then the light bulb turned on. This is too simple, so I'm running it by you all to see if I'm overlooking anything obvious.

Answer: Just drill out the bolt and then insert a new bolt through the hole with two nuts on either side of the flange and a washer on top. I mean, that's pretty much how all the modern flanges have their closet bolts seated, right?!

 

[Houptee]

The bolts on new flanges go into the slots they have flat T shape on bottom so you can adjust the toilet a bit so its square to the wall.
You should try and get rid of that old flange instead of wasting time on the broken bolt.
They make a PVC flange with a rubber gasket that you push down inside the old pipe its called a Twist and seal flange.
If you go that route you probably have to cut off some of the cast iron pipe so the flange sits flat on the final subfloor.
I have used a 3" diameter pneumatic cut off tool that uses thin cut off discs and you cut from inside the pipe carefully in a circle until you cut thru the pipe. Then I put the twist n seal flange down into the pipe lubricated the gasket with liquid soap so it goes in easier.
If you do it like that you have a nice new flange and can use the new no wax seals to reset the toilet.

 

[Opifex]

I'd love to install a new flange, but mine is caulked in with lead, and I'm sure it will not be easy to remove it. I'd have to buy a torch, another expense, and the flange is sitting on wood planks, so I'm worried about starting a fire too. Then I'd probably have to cut the pipe, as you say, which means buying more tools I don't currently have. Too much effort and expense when the existing flange is good enough.

I do plan on using a no-wax seal though, the one made by Fluidmaster.

 

[Reach4]

Answer: Just drill out the bolt and then insert a new bolt through the hole with two nuts on either side of the flange and a washer on top. I mean, that's pretty much how all the modern flanges have their closet bolts seated, right?!

That works.

 

[Opifex]

Well now here's another issue I just noticed, actually two. First, the top of the flange is set lower than the top of the pipe! So I'm going to have to add an extension in order to use the wax-free seal. I assume the foam-rubber gasket must sit on a flat surface in order to seal properly. Second, the flange is not level. I'm not sure how big a deal it is if I want to use a wax-free seal. I know a traditional wax ring would seal properly. What do you think?

 

[Houptee]

Can you access below the floor or is this on 2nd floor bath?
Do you have a Harbor Freight Tools store near you?
If you own a old house you are going to need to invest in a lot of tools!

 

[Reach4]

I'm not sure how big a deal it is if I want to use a wax-free seal. I know a traditional wax ring would seal properly. What do you think?

Didn't think much of #8, I guess. If in doubt, use the wax.

How far below or above the floor is that level in your picture?

If you don't have the clearance to insert the bolt from below, you could use a stud with a nut below.

 

[Jadnashua]

If a bolt extractor doesn't work, you could drill the appropriate hole then tap new threads. The repair ring will work, too. What is going on the floor? Most toilets will not have enough room to handle a flange that high above the floor the toilet is sitting on when it is much more than 1/2" or so above the floor around it.

 

[Taylorjm]

Honestly, I think your best bet would be to take out a couple floor boards, trace the line back a little and cut the cast iron flange and probably a 90 out, replace it with pvc at the level you need. I know of clamps you could use to go from cast iron to pvc, but I don't know what is allowed by code that would be covered up, so I don't want to suggest any of them.

 

[Opifex]

Thank you all for your considered input and advice. I went under the house to see if I could just cut out the old pipe and replace it with ABS, but then I saw this giant chunk of cast iron and gave up on that idea. Which brought be back to what Reach first suggested way back, which is to simply use the HydroSeat secured to the finished floor. I spoke with an old retired plumber at my local hardware store who helped me get over my scruples about putting a fastener into the vinyl flooring, contra their installation instructions. I'm sure it'll be fine.

I installed the OSB underlayment this past weekend. So far so good!



Cheers, and Merry Christmas,
Opifex

 

[Taylorjm]

I don't blame you. Cutting cast iron pipe, especially in a confined space can be a big pain. Sounds like a good solution.