We bought our home last August. One of my current worries is the water piping. The home is 10 years old, well water, PEX piping with brass fittings. Not even a few months after we moved in, we had our first leak, was a pinhole leak in the first 90 degree brass elbow fitting where the well water feeds into the house. You can actually see the pinhole in the second photo below. Since that time, I've replaced about 5 other fittings that looked like they were on their way to failure as well. From looking at the pictures, has anyone ever seen this type of corrosion before? I think the problem may be mainly caused from condensation, however the inside of the fittings don't look great either... While it was still hot/humid last summer/fall, I'd frequently find the exposed brass fittings dripping from condensation. Keeping the closet door open and putting a fan moving air around the pipes seemed to help keep that from occurring. I've chosen to replace with plastic fittings as I go, as I'm not sure they could be any worse than these brass fittings. I'm a bit nervous about the possible condition of my pipes in the walls where I cannot see. Do I need to try to hunt down the plumber that is responsible for this? Any other ideas/thoughts? Thanks!
PEX brass fitting corrosion
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James Henry
In the Trades
You have hard water. I don't see how it's the plumbers fault.
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That is true, water is between 7 to 8 gpg. We do have a water softener, of course that is down stream of this particular fitting and all others that I've replaced. I'm going to hold on to that theory that everything downstream of the softener is probably in great condition, I like that! Is it possible that a hardness of this level, or any other harsh water qualities, would cause the installer to consider using another product in this application (like PVC or poly fittings) until reaching the softener, or is it reasonable that one could expect much more than 10 years out of these fittings given a hardness of 8 gpg?
James Henry
In the Trades
I'd say 10 years with 8 gpg you got what you could out of those fittings. Make sure your water pressure is around 60 PSI, turbulence in the water lines causes pin holes in the fittings also.
Gsmith22
Active Member
hard water has abundant calcium and magnesium. although dissolved in the water, they don't like to stay dissolved and tend to deposit and build-up on the inside of your plumbing. Hardness doesn't cause pin hole leaks though. Judging from the inside of your fitting with the light blue-green hue, you probably also have corrosive water. Corrosive water will dissolve metals it comes in contact with. Since brass is mostly copper, the blue-green hue indicates the copper is being dissolved. Do you have blue-green stains on sinks, toilets, or showers? With pex, the metals are limited (relative to copper plumbing) so you might not have staining on fixtures. Ever have your well water tested? The pex will be unaffected by the corrosiveness but the metals won't, replacing the fittings with the plastic version is probably advisable but you also want to get a comprehensive test of your water done to correct the any low pH. any metal in the plumbing system will be subject to being dissolved, possibly slowly over time. A water softener doesn't change the pH so it is neither helping nor harming the pH.
We do not see any blue-green stains. We had the standard well water tests mandated by VA. Coliform, E-coli, Lead, nitrates, and nitrites. Not PH. I've tested well water multiple times for PH using pool tester, and come up with about 6.5-6.6.
That's low IMO. Mine floated between 6.2 and 6.5, and I had to repipe a copper house 25 years old.
John
There were some brass pex fittings that were recalled several years ago. They weren't made with the right amount of brass so they did exactly what yours are doing. Look it up, you might still be able to get relief from them.
I couldn't make out the markings on the fitting you posted. See if you can find one that is in better shape and that way you can tell if it's one of those recalled.
Either way, I would rip it all out rather than risk worse damage. I always tell my customers that the really small leaks usually end up causing the most damage. That's because by the time they show up on the drywall there's usually mold and rotted wood.
I couldn't make out the markings on the fitting you posted. See if you can find one that is in better shape and that way you can tell if it's one of those recalled.
Either way, I would rip it all out rather than risk worse damage. I always tell my customers that the really small leaks usually end up causing the most damage. That's because by the time they show up on the drywall there's usually mold and rotted wood.
The Uponor F1960 plastic fittings are larger ID than the ones that are connected with clamps or crimps. Those only work with PEX A. You can use the other fittings with PEX A also, with clamps or crimp rings. You can have a piece of PEX A with expansion on one end and clamp on the other. That would let you transition.
https://www.uponorpro.com/~/media/extranet/files/plumbing literature/ep f1960 fittings vs. f2159 fittings fact sheet.ashx?version=060620180151 is their writeup on the topic.
https://www.pexuniverse.com/types-of-pex-fittings may have some useful info for you.
Gsmith22
Active Member
brass is a mixture of copper and zinc. Yellow brass has more zinc (~40% zinc/60%copper) while red brass has less zinc (~15% zinc/85%copper). the issue Plumbs describes was called brass dezincification that occurred with the use of yellow brass in crimp ring style pex fittings (you have crimp rings, can't visually tell if the fitting is yellow or red brass). all the makers switched to red brass and the problem was eliminated. Don't know the time frames of the yellow brass use, identification of problem, and red brass switchover - maybe do some research to confirm what you have. But, the dezincification issue was the water corroding away the zinc of the yellow brass giving it a pitting style corrosion look to the fittings. And brass dezincification doesn't turn the fittings green because the copper wasn't being corroded, the zinc was. Dezincification creates a very rough looking corrosion - think anode rod in your water heater at the end of its life.
In the pictures above, you have mineral deposit on the fittings (not corrosion) that looks more like a hard water issue (plus you confirmed you have hard water). I bet if you take a brush and clear off the fitting, you will find unpitted brass underneath. And your pinhole leak is from the acidic water not dezincificaiton. The green color on the inside of the fitting (which is in contact with the well water) is the dead ringer for acidic water because very few things corrode copper, acid water is one of them, and when it does corrode it turns green. You confirmed you have acidic water with the 6.5ish pH. Generally you want the well water between like 7.2 and 7.9. Definitely not below 7 because then it eats stuff. Eliminate the metal from your water system (its already limited given the pex) and get a water treatment system that raises the pH. Your fixtures are probably likely being corroded (albeit slowly). You will probably find the various washers, o-rings, sealing type elements of your fixtures and valves begin to leak in the not too distant future (maybe another 10 years max). Been there done all of that.
In the pictures above, you have mineral deposit on the fittings (not corrosion) that looks more like a hard water issue (plus you confirmed you have hard water). I bet if you take a brush and clear off the fitting, you will find unpitted brass underneath. And your pinhole leak is from the acidic water not dezincificaiton. The green color on the inside of the fitting (which is in contact with the well water) is the dead ringer for acidic water because very few things corrode copper, acid water is one of them, and when it does corrode it turns green. You confirmed you have acidic water with the 6.5ish pH. Generally you want the well water between like 7.2 and 7.9. Definitely not below 7 because then it eats stuff. Eliminate the metal from your water system (its already limited given the pex) and get a water treatment system that raises the pH. Your fixtures are probably likely being corroded (albeit slowly). You will probably find the various washers, o-rings, sealing type elements of your fixtures and valves begin to leak in the not too distant future (maybe another 10 years max). Been there done all of that.
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ShadowAviator
Member
I am not an expert, but have researched brass fittings some.
Some brass fittings were made with a low quality yellow brass (C36000, C37700, maybe others I don't know of). These fittings could have dezincification issues. The Zurn lawsuit involved these.
Alot of brass fittings made now are made with dezincification resistant brass. I think C46500 is a common type of brass used for this. I believe they added a small amount of tin into the alloy to help. Copper content is still around 60-65%.
I think the better brass to use is c69300 (or Eco Brass). Veiga and Uponor currently use this type of brass, as far as I know. They may have used something else in the past. C69300 is supposed to be better than C46500. It has a higher copper content (over 70%). It has slightly less tin added, but phosphorus is also added. I think the extra copper, tin, and phosphorus help with the corrosion issue.
Now this is just what I have googled, so I could be wrong. I would think you could trust Viega or Uponor.
Here's one source. https://corrosion-doctors.org/MatSelect/corrbrass.htm
All that said, that may not be your issue. It may be that the chemistry of your water is bad for any brass fitting, I don't know.
My only thoughts are to use either poly or eco brass fittings. If you can't find what you need in those, then maybe try C46500 fittings. C46500 Dezincification Resistant fittings might work just fine, but Eco Brass is supposed to be better.
Maybe you can have the fitting cut open and inspected to see if the issue was dezinc. When the zinc dissolves out, a porous copper is left behind. In some pictures you can see the difference in how far the dezinc has spread.
Again, I am no expert. Just a farmer who likes researching.
Some brass fittings were made with a low quality yellow brass (C36000, C37700, maybe others I don't know of). These fittings could have dezincification issues. The Zurn lawsuit involved these.
Alot of brass fittings made now are made with dezincification resistant brass. I think C46500 is a common type of brass used for this. I believe they added a small amount of tin into the alloy to help. Copper content is still around 60-65%.
I think the better brass to use is c69300 (or Eco Brass). Veiga and Uponor currently use this type of brass, as far as I know. They may have used something else in the past. C69300 is supposed to be better than C46500. It has a higher copper content (over 70%). It has slightly less tin added, but phosphorus is also added. I think the extra copper, tin, and phosphorus help with the corrosion issue.
Now this is just what I have googled, so I could be wrong. I would think you could trust Viega or Uponor.
Here's one source. https://corrosion-doctors.org/MatSelect/corrbrass.htm
All that said, that may not be your issue. It may be that the chemistry of your water is bad for any brass fitting, I don't know.
My only thoughts are to use either poly or eco brass fittings. If you can't find what you need in those, then maybe try C46500 fittings. C46500 Dezincification Resistant fittings might work just fine, but Eco Brass is supposed to be better.
Maybe you can have the fitting cut open and inspected to see if the issue was dezinc. When the zinc dissolves out, a porous copper is left behind. In some pictures you can see the difference in how far the dezinc has spread.
Again, I am no expert. Just a farmer who likes researching.
Gsmith22
Active Member
ShadowAviator: nice brass summary. What all of these brass formulations attempt to do is minimize zinc and add additional alloying elements to control corrosion. High zinc generally = high corrosion. One thing that has also changed in the interim since the Zurn lawsuit is that now all plumbing has to be lead free. I'm not sure if the solution at the time (C46500) meets those requirements - is anyone currently using it in their brass formulations? I can guarantee that any currently used brass meets the lead free requirements (ie Eco Brass). But, the OP has piping in place (pex B) that necessitates the use of crimp fittings so that means Uponor is out. I don't know much about Viega but I don't think they have crimp rings like in the OP's photo.
Regardless, I still think the OP has an acidic water issue and not a dezincification issue.
Regardless, I still think the OP has an acidic water issue and not a dezincification issue.
ShadowAviator
Member
Well I don't know if there are different types of C46500 brass; however, I see companies saying their fittings are lead free and they are using C46500.
I think C46500 is SUPPOSED to be lead free, but I am not sure.
I don't know if Viega makes stainless steel clamps like the OP has, but I believe the stainless clamps will work with Viega's crimp fittings.
I think C46500 is SUPPOSED to be lead free, but I am not sure.
I don't know if Viega makes stainless steel clamps like the OP has, but I believe the stainless clamps will work with Viega's crimp fittings.
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