Odd pressure switch behavior

[H22lude]

I recently had a new pressure tank and soda ash system installed. Just now I noticed my hands were really slippery when washing dishes. I went down stairs to find the pressure gauge at 50psi and the soda ash system constantly pumping. It used about 5 gallons in probably an hour or so. I opened a few faucets to get it down to 40psi to see if it would go back up to 60psi. The pressure gauge went to about 30psi then back up to 40psi. It is now stuck at 40psi even though I'm using water. Edit: staying at 30psi right now with water running

So the soda ash system was constantly pumping even though the pressure switch wasn't on. The soda ash power comes from the pressure switch so it only turns on when the pump is pumping water into the pressure tank.

Does this sound like a bad pressure switch?

 

[Valveman]

Sounds like a hole in the pipe.

Shut the power off to the pump and make sure all faucets are closed. If pressure goes to zero you have a hole in the drop pipe or underground pipe.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[H22lude]

Sounds like a hole in the pipe.

Shut the power off to the pump and make sure all faucets are closed. If pressure goes to zero you have a hole in the drop pipe or underground pipe.

Since writing my first post, the pressure went back up to 40. I did what you said in your post, and it held steady at 40psi.

 

[Valveman]

You probably still have a check valve at the tank that shouldn't be there and is masking the problem. Still think you have a hole.

 

[H22lude]

You probably still have a check valve at the tank that shouldn't be there and is masking the problem. Still think you have a hole.

How would I check if I had a check valve?

 

[Reach4]

How would I check if I had a check valve?

It would be a fitting-like think that you don't otherwise recognize. How about a photo that includes the pipe coming in from the submersible pump in the well, and the pressure switch and pressure gauge?

 

[H22lude]

Here's a picture of the switch and gauge. The pipe coming into the house is behind the pressure tank so I can't get a picture of that. I don't see anything on there that would be a check valve.

 

[H22lude]

Just looked at the gauge, it is back to 50psi with no water running. Could the pump be going?

 

[Reach4]

Here's a picture of the switch and gauge. The pipe coming into the house is behind the pressure tank so I can't get a picture of that. I don't see anything on there that would be a check valve.

Neither do I. What is that left-side worm gear clamp connecting to-- another elbow? Shiny new installation.

Just looked at the gauge, it is back to 50psi with no water running. Could the pump be going?

If the pressure switch powers the soda ash pump and the pressure switch is off, then .... whoa.... something odd there.

You inject the soda ash before the pressure tank, off of the left side of that photo, via that translucent tube, right? Maybe you should show us what is off to the left of your photo, and around behind the pressure tank.

Also, is the pump powered by 120 volts or 240? Same for the soda ash pump?

You need a pH meter. A cheap one with a buffer solution for calibration is pretty good. Single screwdriver turn while checking the buffer calibration solution , and you are calibrated.

 

[H22lude]

Neither do I. What is that left-side worm gear clamp connecting to-- another elbow? Shiny new installation.

That worm clamp on the bottom left is connected to the tee where the soda ash goes into. Then after that it goes around back to where the pipe comes into the foundation. I can't take a picture around back because it is so close into the corner.

If the pressure switch powers the soda ash pump and the pressure switch is off, then .... whoa.... something odd there.

So now it is back to 60psi and when I plug the soda ash back in, it doesn't turn on.

You inject the soda ash before the pressure tank, off of the left side of that photo, via that translucent tube, right? Maybe you should show us what is off to the left of your photo, and around behind the pressure tank.

Also, is the pump powered by 120 volts or 240? Same for the soda ash pump?

Yes the translucent tube is from the soda ash. I attached a picture of the left side of the original picture. Around back it goes straight into the foundation and out to the well.

Yes I believe it is. It is a two pole breaker. The soda ash is powered by the pressure switch.

You need a pH meter. A cheap one with a buffer solution for calibration is pretty good. Single screwdriver turn while checking the buffer calibration solution , and you are calibrated.

I have a MW102 for brewing beer.

Edit: I ran the utility sink until it got down to 40psi. It did jump quickly to about 30psi but then went back up to 40psi and climbed a few pounds. The soda ash pump worked when I plugged it in. Just seems to be increasing pressure very very slowly.

 

[Reach4]

Yes I believe it is. It is a two pole breaker. The soda ash is powered by the pressure switch.

Could I see a photo of the pressure switch terminals?

Does that black plug powering the soda ash pump have a pinout like this?

 

[H22lude]

Hopefully this is what yo uwanted to see.

Yes that is what the plug looks like.

When I went down this morning it was at 55psi and the soda ash plug was live. This is telling me the pressure switch isn't getting enough pressure to get to the cut off and it just sits at 55psi, but it is weird because it was at 60psi last night. I know valveman is thinking it is a hole, which it still could be, but the way the pressure switch is acting sounds like it is bad.

How would I find out where the hole is? How would a hole be created? Everything was new in 2012

 

[Valveman]

If your pressure switch and gauge were on the same nipple, I would be checking that nipple for a blockage. However, your gauge is on a separate port and should be telling you the truth. Could also be a worn out pump and a fluctuating water level, but that would be rare. Can you see any of the plumbing at the well head?

 

[H22lude]

If your pressure switch and gauge were on the same nipple, I would be checking that nipple for a blockage. However, your gauge is on a separate port and should be telling you the truth. Could also be a worn out pump and a fluctuating water level, but that would be rare. Can you see any of the plumbing at the well head?

No, all I can see is the top 1.5ft of the well casing with cap. Everything else is underground

 

[Valveman]

I would pull it up and set the pitless on the edge of the casing and do a bucket test. If it takes a few seconds for water to come out after starting the pump there is a hole in the pipe. If the flow is low the pump maybe worn out.

 

[H22lude]

I would pull it up and set the pitless on the edge of the casing and do a bucket test. If it takes a few seconds for water to come out after starting the pump there is a hole in the pipe. If the flow is low the pump maybe worn out.

Pull up the pump itself? That is almost 500ft down

 

[Reach4]

It appears that your switch is wired like the diagram in #11, except terminals 2 and 3 are also wired to the power receptical feeding the soda ash pump.

Your picture 20200909_082726.jpg shows the switch open, so the pump will not be running. The voltage between terminals 2 and 3 will be near zero. When the switch closes (goes on), there will be about 240 volts between terminals 2 and 3.

The symptom seems to be that at times your switch is closed (on) and the pump is not delivering water.

You want to get a clamp-around ammeter, and put the clamp around the wire to the pump from either terminal 2 or terminal 3 -- not both. The white wire going into the yellow cable looks easy to access. Note the current (amps) when the pump delivers water. Note the current when the switch is closed, but the pump is not delivering its normal flow of water.

I see no blackening by the terminals and wire, and if one of the wires going to the yellow cable were not connected tightly, I would expect that. Too bad there was not arcing there. That would explain the symptoms, and would be an easy fix.

 

[Valveman]

Pull up the pump itself? That is almost 500ft down

Do an amp check as Reach suggested first. But then yes, if the problem is 500' down that is where you have to go. But you would only have to lift it a few few to set the pitless on the edge of the casing to do a bucket test.

 

[H22lude]

I'll have to order a clamp around multimeter. I called the well company that installed the tank and switch. They are coming today. Hopefully they can find the issue and it is related to their install so it will be something they fix for free, instead of a new pump

Edit I did shut the power off to the well and turned off the water to the house a little over an hour ago and the pressure gauge hasn't moved which is hopefully a good sign that there isn't a hole

 

[Valveman]

Set 500' I'll bet there is more than one check valve in the drop pipe. But a hole between two check valves usually causes air to blow a glass out of your hand at the sink? A low producing well usually makes good water for a short time before dropping off. Could be either the water level is deeper than your pump can lift or the pump is wearing out. Either way your problem is that the pump cannot build to 60 where the pressure switch can shut it off.