No water in morning

[DStyduhar]

Hi guys,

Really scratching my head on this one. Yesterday @ 5am I noticed we had no water pressure. I went downstairs and manually reset the pressure switch (one of those with low pressure cutoff) and it came right back on and pumped up. Ran the entire day, multiple showers, etc. with no issues. I checked it again tonight and same thing. Manually reset and all is well. This is really bizarre. I replaced the well pump, pressure tank and switch 1.5years ago and have had no issues with it until now. No air in lines and the only check valve is at the pump. No pitless. Here is the setup:

1. Grundfos 1HP/10gpm SQ set @ 185ft. Static water is usually around 50ft.
2. Well Xtrol 44gallon tank
3. 30/50 Square D switch with low pressure cutoff. Cut in is 35psi and out is ~55psi
4. CSV

Side note, I timed how long it look for the pump to pump up the system from cut in to cut off and it took 5 minutes. Does this sound excessive?

Any ideas?

thanks,

Drew

 

[DStyduhar]

Havent used any water since 5Am and the pressure gauge (have three connected to system) hasn't moved at all. So I think that rules out a leak.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Really scratching my head on this one. Yesterday @ 5am I noticed we had no water pressure. I went downstairs and manually reset the pressure switch (one of those with low pressure cutoff) and it came right back on and pumped up.

That would tend indicate having the air precharge not set right. Normally that would be 33 with your 35 psi cut-in. If you still got that symptom, you might go to 32 psi. Air precharge is always set with the water pressure zero.

2. Well Xtrol 55gallon tank
3. 30/50 Square D switch with low pressure cutoff. Cut in is 35psi and out is ~55psi
4. CSV

Side note, I timed how long it look for the pump to pump up the system from cut in to cut off and it took 5 minutes. Does this sound excessive?

A bit. You would probably want to set the CSV to a higher pressure. Instead of 45, maybe 5o.

 

[DStyduhar]

Hey Reach,

Regarding the precharge, Ill double check that today. Still doesnt explain how things work ok all day and then they screw up in the night. Since this morning there have prob been half a dozen toilet flushes, a shower and I watered the garden with no issues. We actually ran into an issue initially with the precharge where we had to drop it even lower that folks normally do because the SQ has a soft start delay. But yeah good call.

Regarding the CSV, I guess I need to reread the instructions because I don't see how changing it would affect the time it takes to refill when NO water is being used. I thought it refills at 1GPM.

thanks,

Drew

 

[Reach4]

Regarding the precharge, Ill double check that today. Still doesnt explain how things work ok all day and then they screw up in the night.

Backwashing filter backwashing? Irrigation at night? Temporary power outage at night, with some water use during the outage?

Most people don't have the switch with the lever. You might want to consider changing to a regular pressure switch.

Regarding time to cut off the pump after use, if the CSV is set to 44, then it might take a while after you stop using water to raise the pressure to 56 psi to shut off the pump. What pressure is your CSV adjusted to?

Also, there is no 55 gallon Well-X-Trol tank. What is the model number?

 

[DStyduhar]

Nothing is running at night

 

[Reach4]

Check your air precharge in the pressure tank. If it is greater than 2 psi below the cut-in pressure, then set it to 2 psi below the cut-in pressure. If it is already that, set it to 3 psi below the cut-in pressure.

Air precharge is always checked and set when the water pressure is zero.

 

[DStyduhar]

""Regarding time to cut off the pump after use, if the CSV is set to 44, then it might take a while after you stop using water to raise the pressure to 56 psi to shut off the pump. What pressure is your CSV adjusted to?""

What I was saying is if I turn on a faucet until the cut in engages @ 35psi (then quickly shut off faucet) it takes almost 5 min for cut out and pump to turn off. This is with no water being used. Thats what I meant by it takes 5 min for our system to pump up. Our CSV is set to around 50psi. Cut in 35psi, cut out 55psi.

""Also, there is no 55 gallon Well-X-Trol tank. What is the model number?""

You are correct. Its a 44gallon. The 250 model.

thanks,

Drew

 

[DStyduhar]

Ok update here. Not gonna lie, feel sort of dumb but also still scratching my head, haha. Precharge was 36psi with no pressure in system which obviously isn't correct.

Thinking back, I added a whole house water filter Dec 2019 which resulted in me disconnecting the pressure tank and all that jazz. I remember setting the precharge again but the basement was cold at heck. Its been in the upper 80's and 90's here in NC and its definitely a lot warmer in the basement. I'm wondering if the increase temp of water and ambient air changed the precharge? Since the precharge was basically the same as the cut in, it was on the hairy edge. Maybe the reason it was doing it in the night is because the water wasn't being used and the basement was acting as a tempering tank or sorts? When you get the pump running, the water is cold but if it hasn't been used for a bit its not very cold.

thanks,

Drew

 

[Valveman]

An increase in the ambient temperature will certainly increase the air charge in the tank. And you need considerably low air charge when using an SQ pump with the 5 second soft start thing. It is also best if you could eliminate the low pressure type cut off switch?