Okay, since this is a very Toto biased forum, and I have now installed two brands, I figured I'd post my review. Up front, I'll say they are both great toilets. It was my first time installing a toilet, actually. Did the first one (the Champion) with my dad and the other two myself.
I installed one American Standard Champion 4 elongated right-height 2 piece (AS), and installed two Toto Drakes (Toto). One of the Drakes was a two piece elongated, and the other was a two piece round. Both standard height. The different styles were just due to a tight bathroom requiring the round and a couple short toddlers requiring regular height.
I picked up the AS at Home Depot for $230 complete (both pieces, seat, wax ring & hardware). The Drakes were about $340 - for the toilets ($300ish) and the matching Toto seat ($40ish). I had to buy the wax ring and hardware. The porcelain on the AS said Made in the U.S.A. On the elongated Toto both pieces were stamped U.S.A. but on the round, one of the pieces was China and the other was U.S.A. Didn't notice a quality difference either way, and I think on both brands it just depends where your box comes from.
I won't talk about the install because it was equal for both the Toto and the AS. Both went on fine. No complications.
THE FLUSH
That's what we bought these for, right? Our existing Mancesa toilets were awful. Very small diameter tank to bowl opening (sorry, forget what this is called) and the pipe elbows on the back of the toilet was very very tight. They contributed to not a lot of suction and a setup that was prone to blockage.
The AS flush is superior over the Toto. Can't argue this one. You drop this handle and there is a much more forceful flush that you hear, see, feel and are more confident will suck anything out. The downside is that the AS handle is harder to push down. Fine for adults, but I think young children may have a tough time and I don't think my toddler could do it.
The Toto flush is a hair slower. You don't see a rush of suction in the bowl, but I have zero complaints about the performance. The handle is easier to depress and more family friendly. Still a little more effort required than our old toilets, but nothing our toddler can't handle.
So, I'd say the AS flush wins out, but, we haven't had clogs in either. Due to the less effort required for the lever I'd probably lean towards the Toto for more family and guest friendliness. In the end, if I don't have to plunge, the toilet is working great!
THE INSIDES
Both toilets seem to use proprietary mechanisms for the flapper assembly. The flapper on both is a non standard raised model and I expect would be more expensive than your basic toilet flapper when it comes time to replace. I'd think the AS would be easier to find since it sounds like I have to get the Toto hardware from a Toto dealer (local hardware stores don't stock it). The water tower (sorry, don't know what this is called either) on the AS is a standard off the shelf part I can find anywhere. The Toto one as you know is custom.
So, down the road when it comes time to replace things, the AS will probably be more convenient to find parts and replace. Possibly cheaper as well.
The elbow in the back of both lower halves seemed comparable for both toilets. They both seemed to take nice wide turns to enable a smooth flow and less chance of clogs.
THE OUTSIDE
I think they both look pretty comparable.
THE SEATS
Awful. Both of them.
The Toto seat was a soft close seat which is what I wanted, however, it has an uncomfortably sharp edge. I thought it was just me but two guests commented as well. Sharp may not be accurate, it is more of a pressure point around the outside, the interior edge is too low and the outside edge to high and sharp. Not comfortable and was a waste of $40. Wish I could return seats but didn't bother to ask. I can't see anyone taking them back.
The AS comes with a standard seat. It was a piece of junk. Didn't use it.
I bought the Bemis whisper close seats. They're great. Easy to install/replace.
So, this calls for a price adjustment. I can buy the Toto without the seat for around 300, add a Bemis whisper close for $35 and I'm up to $335 complete. On the AS I would automatically chuck their seat, add on $35 for a good seat and I'm up to $265.
SUMMARY
I'm happy with both toilets. Have had them all installed for a couple months with no complaints.
Anyway, hopefully some future shopper finds this comparison useful. I appreciate the help I received on this forum and I am glad I did not buy the Danze I was looking at. I also felt better giving my business to a local shop rather than the big box store. Good luck with your own choice!
-kt
I installed one American Standard Champion 4 elongated right-height 2 piece (AS), and installed two Toto Drakes (Toto). One of the Drakes was a two piece elongated, and the other was a two piece round. Both standard height. The different styles were just due to a tight bathroom requiring the round and a couple short toddlers requiring regular height.
I picked up the AS at Home Depot for $230 complete (both pieces, seat, wax ring & hardware). The Drakes were about $340 - for the toilets ($300ish) and the matching Toto seat ($40ish). I had to buy the wax ring and hardware. The porcelain on the AS said Made in the U.S.A. On the elongated Toto both pieces were stamped U.S.A. but on the round, one of the pieces was China and the other was U.S.A. Didn't notice a quality difference either way, and I think on both brands it just depends where your box comes from.
I won't talk about the install because it was equal for both the Toto and the AS. Both went on fine. No complications.
THE FLUSH
That's what we bought these for, right? Our existing Mancesa toilets were awful. Very small diameter tank to bowl opening (sorry, forget what this is called) and the pipe elbows on the back of the toilet was very very tight. They contributed to not a lot of suction and a setup that was prone to blockage.
The AS flush is superior over the Toto. Can't argue this one. You drop this handle and there is a much more forceful flush that you hear, see, feel and are more confident will suck anything out. The downside is that the AS handle is harder to push down. Fine for adults, but I think young children may have a tough time and I don't think my toddler could do it.
The Toto flush is a hair slower. You don't see a rush of suction in the bowl, but I have zero complaints about the performance. The handle is easier to depress and more family friendly. Still a little more effort required than our old toilets, but nothing our toddler can't handle.
So, I'd say the AS flush wins out, but, we haven't had clogs in either. Due to the less effort required for the lever I'd probably lean towards the Toto for more family and guest friendliness. In the end, if I don't have to plunge, the toilet is working great!
THE INSIDES
Both toilets seem to use proprietary mechanisms for the flapper assembly. The flapper on both is a non standard raised model and I expect would be more expensive than your basic toilet flapper when it comes time to replace. I'd think the AS would be easier to find since it sounds like I have to get the Toto hardware from a Toto dealer (local hardware stores don't stock it). The water tower (sorry, don't know what this is called either) on the AS is a standard off the shelf part I can find anywhere. The Toto one as you know is custom.
So, down the road when it comes time to replace things, the AS will probably be more convenient to find parts and replace. Possibly cheaper as well.
The elbow in the back of both lower halves seemed comparable for both toilets. They both seemed to take nice wide turns to enable a smooth flow and less chance of clogs.
THE OUTSIDE
I think they both look pretty comparable.
THE SEATS
Awful. Both of them.
The Toto seat was a soft close seat which is what I wanted, however, it has an uncomfortably sharp edge. I thought it was just me but two guests commented as well. Sharp may not be accurate, it is more of a pressure point around the outside, the interior edge is too low and the outside edge to high and sharp. Not comfortable and was a waste of $40. Wish I could return seats but didn't bother to ask. I can't see anyone taking them back.
The AS comes with a standard seat. It was a piece of junk. Didn't use it.
I bought the Bemis whisper close seats. They're great. Easy to install/replace.
So, this calls for a price adjustment. I can buy the Toto without the seat for around 300, add a Bemis whisper close for $35 and I'm up to $335 complete. On the AS I would automatically chuck their seat, add on $35 for a good seat and I'm up to $265.
SUMMARY
I'm happy with both toilets. Have had them all installed for a couple months with no complaints.
- As I mentioned, I think the only toss-up is you can have a more aggressive sounding flush on the AS, but it comes with the price of more lever effort.
- I was not happy with either brand/s seat.
- Install and quality seemed comparable on both.
- I sense that parts availability will be easier on the AS.
Anyway, hopefully some future shopper finds this comparison useful. I appreciate the help I received on this forum and I am glad I did not buy the Danze I was looking at. I also felt better giving my business to a local shop rather than the big box store. Good luck with your own choice!
-kt
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