Low Water Pressure From Softener...

[TSummit]

Hello, I recently had to replace a pressure tank at our place. the well and water was shut off for about 24 hours. I replaced pressure tank, and turned well pump and water back on to house. I had about 50% less pressure than before. I made sure it wasn't pressure tank and did a few tests etc. I then decided to bypass the softener and that was the ticket. its telling me there must be some debris in the head somewhere possibly? I tried to regenerate system, tried to back wash for an hour, tried running rust out, pulled apart control valve to clean what I could. everything was working fine pressure wise before so this leads me to believe its not resin but could be? im not sure what other steps to take - any help is appreciated, thanks - Travis

Model: Fleck 5600sxt (black housing, fine mesh upgrade)
bought / installed: December 2014
private well water system, pretty high iron content

 

[Bannerman]

Fine Mesh resin is usually not recommended as it often will itself cause a greater flow restriction through the softener, similar as you are describing. That does not, however, explain why the flow restriction is now suddenly greater than before replacing the pressure tank.

What is the captive pressure (pre-charge) in the new pressure tank before the well pump was turned on? What are the pump switch settings?

Is there any iron treatment being utilized prior to the softener?

You stated that you 'tried' a longer backwash, regeneration, rust out, etc. The word 'tried' raises the question if there was success in performing these actions.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[TSummit]

Fine Mesh resin is usually not recommended as it often will itself cause a greater flow restriction through the softener, similar as you are describing. That does not, however, explain why the flow restriction is now suddenly greater than before replacing the pressure tank.

What is the captive pressure (pre-charge) in the new pressure tank before the well pump was turned on? What are the pump switch settings?

Is there any iron treatment being utilized prior to the softener?

You stated that you 'tried' a longer backwash, regeneration, rust out, etc. The word 'tried' raises the question if there was success in performing these actions.

Interesting, I was talked into buying the higher price resin when I bought the system, they said the fine mesh was better for the well / high iron content.
pre-charge pressure was 28psi, switch setting of 30/50

there is nothing before the softener as far as filter, iron treatment etc. there is a whole home filter after the softener

and I should have said I Have backwashed for an hour per recommendation of Pentair technician - with the being said after back wash I progressed through rest of regen. to service. maybe I should do long backwash again and then let it perform rest of regeneration cycles?

 

[Bannerman]

You didn't specify the iron quantity the softener is exposed to. We should also know if the capacity of the softener, both total capacity as well as usable capacity which is programmed into the Fleck SXT controller as 'C'.

Softener removal of iron will require a more frequent regeneration frequency and will also need to utilize a higher salt dose compared to when ferrous iron is removed prior to the softener. What is programmed as 'BF' and what BLFC is installed (usually specified on a label located close to the brine line)?

Resin will often be prematurely damaged by chlorine which is why I had asked about any prior iron removal methods in-place since chlorine is often used to oxidize ferrous iron. Damaged resin will usually cause a substantial restriction through a softener.

Has the resin been regularly cleaned with Iron-Out or a similar cleaner since it was installed? How much I-O was used when you performed the treatment this time?

 

[TSummit]

You didn't specify the iron quantity the softener is exposed to. We should also know if the capacity of the softener, both total capacity as well as usable capacity which is programmed into the Fleck SXT controller as 'C'.

Softener removal of iron will require a more frequent regeneration frequency and will also need to utilize a higher salt dose compared to when ferrous iron is removed prior to the softener. What is programmed as 'BF' and what BLFC is installed (usually specified on a label located close to the brine line)?

Resin will often be prematurely damaged by chlorine which is why I had asked about any prior iron removal methods in-place since chlorine is often used to oxidize ferrous iron. Damaged resin will usually cause a substantial restriction through a softener.

Has the resin been regularly cleaned with Iron-Out or a similar cleaner since it was installed? How much I-O was used when you performed the treatment this time?

thanks for taking the time to help me with this - I apologize I am no professional at all with water softeners -

I would have to test water again but it is high iron, like above .5ppm - the capacity of the softener is 32,000 I am unsure of the 'C' setting, I would have to check that this evening. I started using Res Care about a year ago every time I add salt. I usually just splash a little in, this last time however I put about a cup maybe?

 

[Reach4]

How many GPM is the backwash? You can measure the flow by how long it takes for the drain line to fill a 5 gallon bucket during backwash.

Your tank is probably 9" x 48".

Regular resin would backwash at about 2 gpm, but I expect that gets modified for fine resin.

 

[TSummit]

I actually kind of tried to measure that last night. it took about 6.5 minutes to fill 5 gallons

 

[Reach4]

I actually kind of tried to measure that last night. it took about 6.5 minutes to fill 5 gallons

Clearly that is low. Is it low because of the clogged resin, or clogged because the backwash rate is low? Risk removing the DLFC temporarily trying to unstick the resin? I don't know.

You might see if you can kick your pressure switch up to 40/60, and raise the precharge to 38. That would be about 3.5 turns CW on the nut on the big spring.

To raise or lower the cut-in and cut-out settings while keeping the
differential between those two settings constant, adjust the range
nut. The range nut is the 3/8-inch nut that adjusts the larger of
the two springs in Models FSG, FYG, FRG, and Type G Pumptrol
switches.
Turn the range nut clockwise to increase the cut-in pressure and
counter-clockwise to lower the cut-in pressure. Three and a half
revolutions of the range nut will change both the cut-in and
cut-out settings by approximately 10 psi.​

If your pressure is rising very slowly as you approach 60 psi, then you may need to set your switch lower.

 

[TSummit]

Clearly that is low. Is it low because of the clogged resin, or clogged because the backwash rate is low? Risk removing the DLFC temporarily trying to unstick the resin? I don't know.

You might see if you can kick your pressure switch up to 40/60, and raise the precharge to 38. That would be about 3.5 turns CW on the nut on the big spring.

To raise or lower the cut-in and cut-out settings while keeping the
differential between those two settings constant, adjust the range
nut. The range nut is the 3/8-inch nut that adjusts the larger of
the two springs in Models FSG, FYG, FRG, and Type G Pumptrol
switches.
Turn the range nut clockwise to increase the cut-in pressure and
counter-clockwise to lower the cut-in pressure. Three and a half
revolutions of the range nut will change both the cut-in and
cut-out settings by approximately 10 psi.​

If your pressure is rising very slowly as you approach 60 psi, then you may need to set your switch lower.

I will try to take off the dlfc this evening - maybe there is something stuck in the 'button'? could that cause it to not back wash properly - maybe leaving the resin clogged?

 

[Reach4]

I will try to take off the dlfc this evening - maybe there is something stuck in the 'button'? could that cause it to not back wash properly - maybe leaving the resin clogged?

When you look, note there is a front and a back. See the number on it. If the number opposite the F is 200, that would be a 2.0 gpm button.

 

[zer0]

Clearly that is low. Is it low because of the clogged resin, or clogged because the backwash rate is low? Risk removing the DLFC temporarily trying to unstick the resin? I don't know.

You might see if you can kick your pressure switch up to 40/60, and raise the precharge to 38. That would be about 3.5 turns CW on the nut on the big spring.

To raise or lower the cut-in and cut-out settings while keeping the
differential between those two settings constant, adjust the range
nut. The range nut is the 3/8-inch nut that adjusts the larger of
the two springs in Models FSG, FYG, FRG, and Type G Pumptrol
switches.
Turn the range nut clockwise to increase the cut-in pressure and
counter-clockwise to lower the cut-in pressure. Three and a half
revolutions of the range nut will change both the cut-in and
cut-out settings by approximately 10 psi.​

If your pressure is rising very slowly as you approach 60 psi, then you may need to set your switch lower.

Simple issue: somewhere, either injector or flow controls, your getting the backwash necked down to <1 gpm. For downflow, this should be about 2 gpm. Therefore, the system cannot fluff the resin bed. The resin bed is probably packed very tightly together hence the high PD across the system.

Very very easy to check. Open up valve eductor and drain elbow, check flow controls and eductor nozzle & throat for resin, and re-run backwash. Or, if you want immediate results, remove valve from tank, run a hose through the distributor, and literally blast the resin apart.

Thing is, doesnt matter how long you backwash if tank velocity is too low. Too low = no fluff = packed resin. I suspect the softening capacity is in the shitter as well since packed resin means very low salt efficiency, something around 2000-3000 gr/lb salt. # should be at 4500 for an optimal downflow running around 8lbs/cf dosage.

 

[ditttohead]

Actually, resin does not need to be fluffed from a purely technical standpoint. Consider that resin is round beads, not irregular so packing can not and does not occur unless the resin is broken down. This is why we do not backwash resin based non regenerable medias, but we do backwash granular medias.

If the resin is starting to degrade, this is easily determined by removing the valve and taking a small sample from the top of the resin bed. The worn resin tends to migrate to the top of the bed. Take a small amount and try to "squish" it between your fingr and thumb. It should not crush and it should feel like tiny marbles. if the top feels "muddy" then your resin is in need of replacing. You can take a sample from deeper in the bed and you will notice that the resin is hard and round. Do not attempt to remove the top layer of resin and replacing just the bad stuff. Once the resin starts to degrade, the resin bed needs to be completely replaced.

Worn resin can also cause a drop in flow rate to the drain since the lighter, smaller degraded resin can quickly move to the top of the tank during regeneration and clog the top screen. In commercial equipment this is fairly rare sine most commercial units do not have a traditional top screen but rather a diffuser. The worn, damaged resin simply exits the system to the drain. Obviously over time the resin levels will start to drop in the system.

 

[Guy48065]

Wow--you're all talking way over my head. I recently ran into the same problem, and the same cause (low in-service flow after tank service). I needed to check the pre-charge on my tank since the pump was short-cycling so I turned off the pump & bled down the pressure. I aired-up the tank, turned on the pump and a lot of really dark water came from the open tap in the utility tub and a lot of sediment remained after the tub had drained. After some fiddling I also discovered that flow was normal with the softener bypassed. Following instructions from a thread I started here I trapped my softener in the backflush cycle for nearly an hour.
Flow was hugely improved. Not quite to 100% but close. I can live with it until I replace my softener--which was needed before and now even more so.

Lesson learned: Bypass the softener when working on the system until after a good line flush to get the gunk that apparently builds up in the tank.

 

[Reach4]

Lesson learned: Bypass the softener when working on the system until after a good line flush to get the gunk that apparently builds up in the tank.

At the base of your pressure tank is a valve for draining the tank. That way the sediment does not make it to your sink. Your other lesson should be to drain the tank once per year, and to adjust the schedule based on what you see then.

 

[Guy48065]

At the base of your pressure tank is a valve for draining the tank. That way the sediment does not make it to your sink. Your other lesson should be to drain the tank once per year, and to adjust the schedule based on what you see then.

All that and SO much more not common knowledge and not passed along to a home buyer.