BobL43
DIY Senior Member
Woo Hoo!
Best idea I've seen here yet!
I suggest merging forces and going after Ian.
Best idea I've seen here yet!
I suggest merging forces and going after Ian.
cookie, i am a biker, and i take offense to you hating motorcycles. it is the rider who was the problem, not the motorcycle. same with guns. it is the person with the gun, who doesn't respect it or life, which causes a fatality. blame the human, not the machine. i hate to say it, but he was riding a hardley, and was drunk, no helmet, and had no insurance.. so typical of a hardley dependable rider, not responsible bikers.
I am not meaning to argue any fine points or semantics as to what is "law", and neither am I disagreeing with what you have just said about "work without permit or inspection" being "against the law". No problem there. Rather, I am simply ignorant/unaware of any criminal charges ever being filed over code violations, and yet I surely do understand a civil action could take place.... the man did work without permit or inspection which is against the law.
Since there is no such thing as harm being done legally, there is no need to have the word "illegally" in that statement. So then ...Second what he did illegally caused someone else harm.
... whether or not the man had been trained and licensed and then caused harm.This ... act of causing harm ... would mandate a ... sentence ...
No such thing has been said here. I have only said he is/was and/or at least appears to be mechanically incompetent.To say he was ignorant of the codes ...
We do not know whether the man was truly stupid, and I suspect he was not or else he could have likely done nothing at all. So with all mocking-and/or-ridiculing character judgment -- mis-use of the word "stupid" -- set aside, we agree that a child was hurt because of a father's mechanical ignorance.It was due to his ignorance of the dangers and [possibly some additional ignorance] in doing something he knew little about that a child was hurt ...
I have never suggested any such thing, and I would simply tell the child her father had made a grievous error while trying to do something nice for her mother ... and then take things from there in relation to helping her cope with the effect of whatever had happened.I would like for you to stand in front of this little girl and tell her that all the things she used to dream of doing but will never be able to is nothing more than emotional rhetoric and she should suck it all up and keep on with life as though her face and legs were never burned.
Absolutely, and nothing there would change even if the work had been been done by a pro and had been inspected. So then, the question before us here is whether or not it should be a criminal-law crime for a DIYer such as myself to place a plastic pool in his back yard and then install a couple of through-wall plumbing fittings and attach a filter and pump and fill the pool with water and send power to the pump without first getting a permit and having everything inspected.If you do something ... and ... somebody gets hurt, I "think" you are responsible.
That is actually a matter of much discussion among riders and drivers both in places where "lane splitting" (sometimes called "lane sharing") is actually legal and where it is not ...I've seen SO many [cyclists] ... drive between lanes to pass cars ...
Almost killed one moron the other day who passed stopped cars (between both cars) in both lanes while I was making a left turn, with the drivers of both stopped cars (heavy traffic) signaling me that they gave me the courtesy to turn. If I killed/injured the guy, I would be held responsible, as well as the 2 drivers that gave me the go ahead. biker gave me the finger ... flying in his own self made lane.
Well of course, if the Bike stayed in the driveway, it would be safe. Yes, there are many responsible Motorcycle drivers (when they grow up). I've seen SO many 20/30 somethings that constantly do long distance wheelies, and drive between lanes to pass cars, that I am predjudiced against bikes too. Almost killed one moron the other day who passed stopped cars (between both cars) in both lanes while I was making a left turn, with the drivers of both stopped cars (heavy traffic) signaling me that they gave me the courtesy to turn. If I killed/injured the guy, I would be held responsible, as well as the 2 drivers that gave me the go ahead. biker gave me the finger. should haved kissed my ass that I stopped. He was flying in his own self made lane.
Am I the only who recognizes these words spoken by our 30th president?
Albert Einstein said,” You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.”
I just don’t see how anyone can get anyone else fired. It was what the person being fired done that cost them their job, is this not true?
... then how could he have possibly known any better and made any better judgment as to whether or not to proceed?If this man did not know that water would be trapped in the pipe this means he was ignorant of the fact. If this man was ignorant of the fact that the water would be trapped in the pipe and he continued to make the install anyhow ...
Stupid, a. [L., to be stupefied] (Webster, 1869)
Very dull [in reasoning]; insensible; senseless; wanting in understanding [even when possibly knowledgeable]; heavy; sluggish [in thought].
example: With wild surprise, a moment stupid, motionless he stood.
Understood, and that is good, and I would guess the majority of those "repeat offenders" are not DIYers, but are non-licensed handymen and such unlawfully doing work for other people or possibly landlords and such doing their own work on rental units.Four times a year our licensing board meets for civil penalties for those who have done things improperly and criminal actions against those who are repeat offenders just like is being done in your state as we speak.
Understood, and that is good.When someone does something against the adopted codes that cause the loss of life, limb, or property then criminal action can be taken.
I am not meaning to argue any fine points or semantics as to what is "law", and neither am I disagreeing with what you have just said about "work without permit or inspection" being "against the law". No problem there. Rather, I am simply ignorant/unaware of any criminal charges ever being filed over code violations, and yet I surely do understand a civil action could take place.
Since there is no such thing as harm being done legally, there is no need to have the word "illegally" in that statement. So then ...
What the man did had caused someone else harm, and the question here is whether and/or how he should then be punished (or the injured party awarded something) for his having (even inadvertently) caused someone harm ...
... and *not* simply for doing his own work and/or then not having his work inspected. Those two elements would be details within the case, but neither is an actual criminal or civil offense (as far as I know).
... whether or not the man had been trained and licensed and then caused harm.
No such thing has been said here. I have only said he is/was and/or at least appears to be mechanically incompetent.
We do not know whether the man was truly stupid, and I suspect he was not or else he could have likely done nothing at all. So with all mocking-and/or-ridiculing character judgment -- mis-use of the word "stupid" -- set aside, we agree that a child was hurt because of a father's mechanical ignorance.
I have never suggested any such thing, and I would simply tell the child her father had made a grievous error while trying to do something nice for her mother ... and then take things from there in relation to helping her cope with the effect of whatever had happened.
Absolutely, and nothing there would change even if the work had been been done by a pro and had been inspected. So then, the question before us here is whether or not it should be a criminal-law crime for a DIYer such as myself to place a plastic pool in his back yard and then install a couple of through-wall plumbing fittings and attach a filter and pump and fill the pool with water and send power to the pump without first getting a permit and having everything inspected.
Should I now either be fined or go to jail?
Yes, yes, yes and yes, of course ... and the matter of the GFI there was something else needed even before I ever got here and that I had told the electrician I would take care of before he comes. All the contractors around here are always busy, and he needs/wants to get in and back out in one day.Point here is: did you do the correct wiring, ground fault protection and use in-service cover for the electric pump. Did you provide personal protection for the suction line from the pump, so as not to be able to disembowel a child that gets caught on the intake (yes, it has happened).
Lots of stuff can be done by DIY, but it has to be done safely, and not just according to what you or I may consider to be safe. I do lots of DIY work. I do my best to follow the codes. to CYA (mine).
The title of this thread only says he will not be doing so.Just a point I want to make about the title of your thread here Lee, JW is not bullying or never did bully you ...
I cannot imagine how you could possibly say that since you know Aspies often do get bullied, but maybe you have a different comprehension of what it means to be bullied. In any case, the bullying in my own life was so bad that I ended up in prison in '78 (age 28) for a crime I committed while finally standing up to the worst bully ever in my life ... and now through more-appropriate means, I have since eliminated almost all of that from my life. So then, and whether or not JW had done or had even attempted any kind of alleged "bullying" in my previous thread, he certainly had attempted to unnecessarily be a controller of some kind at someone else's expense just like you have just done here ... but I am not accusing you of consciously or intentionally attempting to do that. Rather, and as part of my own mechanical/methodical approach to social interactions (in my Aspie-absence of any more-typical-for-others "social intelligence"), I have simply studied people's *actions* for many years now in order to be able to learn to interact reasonably well at all ... and I must admit that I have in the past occasionally also been a passive-aggressive manipulator or controller myself (though not as often as accused), and all of that means I have also occasionally even been a bit of a "bully" (at least of that particular sort) myself and have both seen and experienced all of that from both sides of the street.... you no offense, do not know what bullying is.
I do not mean to be debating or even discussing what JW either has or has not done here -- see my new signature line -- and yes, Cookie, I sometimes feel for you too! (wink)To people who know me, knows, I studied Child development, Pedology, years and years ago, when I was pretty young. I worked at places where people had a range of problems, so I feel for you with yours, I have my own. So, far as JW, this man was just answering questions Lee, as well as all here. Sometimes, people take things the wrong way and think, that is what has been happening with things here between you and JW, and I do wish you would not include me in it, as you just did. That is messed up.
I know bullying, too Lee. I know it well. So, feel for me, too. To be honest, you wouldn't want my life.
Yes. The retainer for the breaker arrived yesterday, and I turned off the power to the workshop before even taking it out there. The graphics on the retainer's instruction sheet were lousy, but I finally figured out how to properly fasten it in place inside the box ... and now I just have to wait for the electrician to come do the higher-tech stuff at the house. I have yet to try a GFI breaker for the receptacle outside the workshop since I still do not know exactly why the AFI breaker had been tripping, but that receptacle is not needed for now anyway.I am glad someone does. I hope you got what you needed fixed Lee. Is everything working okay?
This is awkward, but...
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