Is my well guy above board?

[Steve Graham]

2 month back my 400 ft deep well 3/4hp pump quit cold turkey. called local guy I'll call Chuck. chuck said pump probably died, when he pulled the pump he found a broken wire. chuck gave me 2 options, fix the wire and let the pump back down or continue pulling and replace the pump as well. since the pump is 21years old I said replace it so we don't have to revisit anytime soon.
then the well started tripping the 15amp breaker. called chuck back and he said tripping breakers is a sign the well is dry. he gave 2 options, drill a new well or hydrofrac the existing. we went with frac @ $3,000. wife had the well tested and revealed high level of coliform. so we did the math and added the appropriate amount of bleach to sanitize. waited a couple of days and started to purge. every time I ran the water it would go about 10 minutes then trip the breaker. so I would do it again the next day. I thought I was running the well empty. then the breaker started tripping sooner than 10 minutes. we were in ultra water conservative mode, even taking showers in our camper. we left for 2 weeks on vacation and when we came back I thought the static level would be up but the breaker would not hold at all.
I called my electrician to get his input, he came out and put an amp meter on the line and said the pump is drawing 22 amps at run speed. he said you need to call your well guy and possibly you have a bad pump. I called chuck and he said "electricians don't know anything about pumps". I told him it was drawing 22 amps at 5 ohms. chuck said he would come look but so far has been dodging me.
Where should I go from here?

 

[Valveman]

When a breaker trips from pumping a well dry, the water will stop flowing for several minutes or longer before the breaker will trip. If the water stops from the breaker tripping, you are not pumping the well dry.

A 3/4HP should only pull 7 amps max. Does it have a capacitor start control box or just two wires going from the pressure switch down the well? If if has a control box, you may need a new capacitor and/or relay. If it is a 2 wire motor without a control, the problem is most likely down hole. As long as you have the correct 240 volts to the pump, it should only draw 7 amps. If there is no problem with the voltage or a control box, the problem is down the well.

A pump guy who is "above board" would not be dodging you. He would come out and make it right.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

Where should I go from here?

I don't know what the appropriate amount of time would be before you call another well person to set things right and to get a refund from Chuck directly or via small claims court. Try to document your communications.

then the well started tripping the 15amp breaker.

How long after he left did the breaker start tripping?

I don't think being dry causes a 3/4 HP pump to pull 22 amps. A dry pump pulls fewer amps than a pump pumping water. I am not a pro.

 

[Steve Graham]

I am into this guy for $5500+. I have started documenting communications. I am a contractor myself and I respect the theory that you need to give a guy a chance to make things right. but how long into this process should I hold out hope? How long can I let a new pump run at 22 amps? When I spoke to chuck he said "if I come out there and it doesn't read 22 amps I am going to throw someone down the well". Not very professional IMO. So now I have to deal with an attitude as well.

 

[Valveman]

I don't know what the appropriate amount of time would be before you call another well person to set things right and to get a refund from Chuck directly or via small claims court. Try to document your communications.
How long after he left did the breaker start tripping?

I don't think being dry causes a 3/4 HP pump to pull 22 amps. A dry pump pulls fewer amps than a pump pumping water. I am not a pro.

Yeah when you pump the well dry the amps will actually drop from 7 to about 3. Then it runs a while at 3 amps and not pumping any water until the motor and pump get hot. Then the amps go up quickly from 3 to 22 as the impellers start melting together, then the breaker finally trips.

Breakers are only designed to protect the electric grid from your locked down or shorted pump/motor, not to protect the pump. By the time the breaker trips there is already damage to the pump and/or motor. If you want to protect a pump from running dry, you have to use something like the Cycle Sensor that would shut it off when the amps drop from 7 to 3, before it starts heating up and melting down and the amps go up, tripping the breaker.

I hate to start an argument, but if the well was never pumping dry to start with, the hydro-frac was an unnecessary cost. Tripping a breaker can be a sign of the well pumping dry, but only after the pump has run dry for at least several minutes. Most people notice the loss of water long before the breaker trips, but not always.

 

[Valveman]

If you have a bad breaker and you are not getting 240 volts to the pump, it could pull 22 amps. But if the pump is getting 240 volts and the motor still draws 22 amps, you are not the one who should be "thrown down the well".

 

[Reach4]

I am into this guy for $5500+. I have started documenting communications. I am a contractor myself and I respect the theory that you need to give a guy a chance to make things right. but how long into this process should I hold out hope? How long can I let a new pump run at 22 amps? When I spoke to chuck he said "if I come out there and it doesn't read 22 amps I am going to throw someone down the well". Not very professional IMO. So now I have to deal with an attitude as well.

Starting current could easily be 22 amps or more, but that is for a very short time (no pun intended). Within I would guess under a second, the motor current would drop as the motor starts.

Note reply #2 above discusses the possibility of a bad control box if you have a 3-wire motor (which usually has 4 wires counting the green). Wow. What if the original problem was only the control box and not the pump? Whoa.

The guy could just use colorful language and still be OK. But the actions here do not seem OK.

 

[Valveman]

Wire down the well was broken, that is usually very obvious. Probably should have just fixed the wire and put the pump back down the well.

I would think a good hydrofrac would include a pump test before and after fracing. If the first pump test showed the well was producing plenty of water, the fracing would not be needed. If the first test showed the well pumped very low volume, then the fracing could be done. But then the second test should show the well is producing more water than the first test or the fracing didn't do any good.

 

[PumpMd]

It could be a short in the wires underground feeding to the pump as well as a weak old breaker. "Rain water" will have fun with shorts in the wire underground.

 

[Craigpump]

This guy "Chuck", he isn't from Ansonia is he?

 

[Steve Graham]

This guy "Chuck", he isn't from Ansonia is he?

Ah, you know him! actually he's not from Ansonia proper but that is his local area

 

[Craigpump]

Yeah.....

Did he install a Grundfos, Pentair or Flow Wise pump?

 

[Craigpump]

He buys materials at the same place I do and they are fantastic about making good on warranties so there is no reason for him to not make good on his work. I ask about the pump make because it's fairly well known that one of them has had serious reliability issues. It is possible that the wire from the house to the well is bad, but if the house is newer, the wire is most likely in a conduit and not affected by moisture. A quick test with a voltmeter will tell if you have 230 going to your pump controls in the house but your electrician would have made that determiination..

At this point it's impossible to know if you needed the well hydrofraced or not. The high levels of coliform are a concern to me, I've always made sure the water I used was heavily chlorinated with plenty of contact time to kill any bacteria. It sounds to me that possibly they pulled water out of a stream or pond and didn't chlorinate it. Using non potable water is a violation.

Whenever a well is drilled or hydrofraced in CT a permit has to be obtained from the local health dept. along with a follow up well completion report that states how much water the well makes. Not taking out a permit is a violation and could strengthen any action you might take. From a consumer standpoint, you'd want an initial well yield test and a follow up well yield test to determine if there was any increase in yield so you can justify your investment.

Sounds like you need a second opinion.

 

[Steve Graham]

the pump had a german name. I know he told me the name at the time but I cannot recall what it was.

 

[Craigpump]

the pump had a german name. I know he told me the name at the time but I cannot recall what it was.

Grundfos, actually a Danish name made in Fresno Ca. Great pumps, we install them almost exclusively but like anything else can have a bad one. No reason why it wouldn't be under warranty, in fact I know it would be exchanged in a heartbeat even if the original installer didn't bring it back.

 

[Steve Graham]

this morning the pump quit altogether. the breaker was tripped. I reset it but the pump is not coming on. I dropped a nickle down the well and I can tell there is plenty of water in the well. I called Chuck - again - and got his answering service. she said she would relay the message but so far he has not responded. this is getting very frustrating. my family has been living with no water for 2+ months now

 

[Reach4]

this morning the pump quit altogether. the breaker was tripped. I reset it but the pump is not coming on. I dropped a nickle down the well and I can tell there is plenty of water in the well. I called Chuck - again - and got his answering service. she said she would relay the message but so far he has not responded. this is getting very frustrating. my family has been living with no water for 2+ months now

Next time, drop an ice cube.

 

[Craigpump]

this morning the pump quit altogether. the breaker was tripped. I reset it but the pump is not coming on. I dropped a nickle down the well and I can tell there is plenty of water in the well. I called Chuck - again - and got his answering service. she said she would relay the message but so far he has not responded. this is getting very frustrating. my family has been living with no water for 2+ months now

You're far more patient than most. We were in Ridgefield this morning setting a pump in a new well drilled yesterday.

 

[Steve Graham]

I realize its labor day weekend and he's probably out of town. he should at least pick up the phone. if he doesn't respond soon I'll have to follow another course. its his mess and I feel like he's dodging his responsibility.
we have a 600 gallon cistern that collects rain water for the garden and wife and kids have been showering in our camper, I jump in the pool. I go to the neighbor twice a week and get fresh water for dishes and we have a Poland springs dispenser in the kitchen. but the patience is wearing thin.

 

[Steve Graham]

Update - Chuck came out and put a meter on the circuit. its drawing 70+ amps now. he said the pump is locked up. he's gonna change it as soon as he can find his crew. they all disappeared for the weekend. I'm a reasonable guy and I always champion the little guy, I said let them have their weekend. we've survived for 2 months without water - another day is not gonna break us.
going forward I thing all the wire in the well should be changed out, after all that is what got this ball rolling.
he said the pump make is Vol-something. I should have paid more attention