I'm terrified of my CPVC...

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Speede541

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...and am considering switching to PEX?

About 8 years ago, I had a professionally installed and city-permitted / fire marshal-inspected CPVC fire sprinkler system (partial coverage) installed in my unfinished basement and upstairs kitchen. Since that time, I have expanded the system throughout the basement with the intention to close the ceilings, and increase coverage to the upstairs living areas. None of this is required by my city, BTW, it's all been at my option.

All along, I have read some horrible stories about CPVC -- susceptible to cracking if contacted by Romex and other wires due to the plasticizers used in the outer insulation, problems with exposure to petroleum products, spray foam insulation, and the hidden effects of mishandling at the distribution level / place of purchase.

Additionally, the basement CPVC is running through heated joist bays that take 180° water, and although the bays don't actually reach that temperature, my concern is the elevated temps could still contribute to the degradation of the material.

I've kept these "fears" at bay, knowing I'm reading about exceptions -- online scare stories many of which are written by lawyers seeking clients, or news organizations reporting on expensive Oopsies in local condos and college dormitories. Most reliable sources maintain CPVC is reliable.

Then, I found it. A CPVC tee fitting in my house, installed by the original fire sprinkler installer, has a hairline crack in it. It's not leaking, but this hasn't helped my paranoia.

For about $1500, I can purchase all the material I need to change my system over to an reputable brand PEX system, keeping my existing sprinkler heads, and changing out pretty much everything else. In addition, PEX would be much easier to install in three locations upstairs where I'm placing concealed wall sprinkler heads, which have required a good amount of planning and creativity (but not yet installed) to make work with the CPVC system, due to the walls being constricted 2x4 framing.

And for what it's worth, my CPVC system is already a "gridded" system (as apposed to a tree / branch system). My primary intent was to have a "low end" for drain-down and a "high end" for air to escape during fill, but this has the added benefit of flow efficiency. It's all easily adaptable to PEX. Except PEX installations look pretty sloppy in terms of straight lines, and all my careful CPVC layout to keep air out and allow a thorough draindown will be mostly lost.

I've already installed PEX hydronic heating and a hot water return loop, so I've got the tools, and comfort level with the material. But I've done such a good job of convincing myself the CPVC will "probably be alright" that I'm having trouble making this decision.
 

WorthFlorida

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Apparently, PEX is approved for domestic fire sprinkler systems so you’re probably OK to go to PEX or at least expand on your sprinkler system. This article reads that PEX is the holy grail of plumbing systems. https://www.plumbermag.com/how-to-a..._sprinkler_systems_provide_new_revenue_stream.

However, do you have a wet or dry system? http://www.qrfs.com/115--can-PEX-be-used-in-dry-or-preaction-fire-sprinklers

That one fitting that appears to have a crack can easily be cut out and replaced. It could be just the line in the fitting from when it was in the mold when made.

Here in Florida the lawyers are advertising defective pipe systems that are trying to scare the crap out of everyone. Of course they show 100 year old cast iron pipe rotted out underground. The manufacturers are money holes for them and it is always less costly to settle than fight it in court. As I see it there are millions of homes with CPVC including mine that was built in 2006. A friend of mine had a house built in 1975 and CPVC was used. If it was bad there be huge insurance claims everywhere but there isn’t. All pipe types have a limited life span. The PEX pipe itself may go over 100 years but the fittings may not.

On a home we were considering on buying, the inspection report read as a horrid story. The home had Pex type pipe and a big question about the fittings. There was a non PEX company that made fittings for pex systems about 15-20 years ago and they were failing big time. Something to do with the metal. You may come across these articles on line so check the dates if any.

FYI.. with a fire sprinkler system in a home can reduce your homeowners insurance cost. If you expand with a permit the insurance company should have no problem accepting it.
 
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Cacher_Chick

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The right plan would be drawn by an engineer who will take into consideration the GPM available to be distributed and the pipe sizes and heads required to adequately protect each space. Using something like PEX, which each fitting is restricting the I.D. of the pipe, the flow rates will not be the same as with CPVC, and the math should be the prime consideration.
 

WorthFlorida

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PEX vs CPVC Here is a CPVC manufacture telling how bad PEX is or not as good as their CPVC. One problem with PEX (an acronym for crosslinked polyethylene) is it has become a generic name and there are different companies manufacturing the product.

https://www.flowguardgold.com/product-comparison/vs-pex/
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/2nd-pex-failure-in-1-year-help.59588/

Members of PEX (Cross-linked Polyethylene)
  • IPEX USA LLC.
  • Kafrit NA.
  • NIBCO Inc.
  • Saco AEI Polymers Inc.
  • Shell Chemical LP.
  • TUNDRA.
  • Uponor.
  • Viega LLC.
PEX | Manufacturers | Plastic Pipe - Plastic Pipe and Fittings Association

https://www.ppfahome.org/pex/members_pex.aspx
 

Master Plumber Mark

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The Cpvc can be an issue and does become brittle over time....
if you can change it out cheaply to pex
it is probably not a bad idea...

you do realize that a sprinkler system or just a defective head in a home can actually do a lot of damage just like a fire if it ever actually
goes off and completely flood the house when you are not around??

does it pour out endlessly or is it set up on some kind of timer?? Long ago we installed some systems in handicapped houses with a huge 300 gallon drum setting in a mecanical room full of water that it pumped from..

..for whatever reason did you decide to have one installed in the first place??? .
 

WorthFlorida

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Insurance companies rather pay for home damage than a claim on a life insurance policy. Millions of sprinkler heads are in commercial buildings and yes, once in a while one might blow out. As long as the sprinkler heads are recessed to minimize kids whacking one, you’re always better off. Water heaters and washing machine hoses blow much more often. Besides, a home sprinkler system should be tied to an alarm system so the fire department is warned and must respond to the residence.
 

Speede541

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Thanks all and some good food for thought.

cacher_chick, good advice on checking flow -- the 1" PEX has a smaller ID than the 1" CPVC. So even though I'd be using expansion-type fittings (reduced impact to flow vs. crimp-type fittings), I also get to compensate for fewer fittings overall (reduced number of tees and elbows). As I mentioned earlier, I've built the original tree-type system into a gridded system, so that any one head is being served from two sides. System design only calls for flow to two heads at any one time, per residential design guidelines.

In any case, the online flow calculator I'm using gets me 18 GPM to my farthest head, exceeding system requirements, and that's assuming a tree layout, not a gridded system.

FWIW (to anybody interested), the original approved design used a common RFC43 sprinkler head in all locations -- centers of rooms, against walls, and in hallways -- which surprised me because different heads are commercially available with different spray patterns to better fit these scenarios. Also, original design was 1" CPVC through-and-through, other than the 1-1/2" 80 PSI main that supplies it. Other design considerations were dropped ceiling beams, which can block the spray and so require heads on either side, head placement to ensure complete coverage of the room, including alcoves, but minimum separations so that the spray from one head won't "wet fuse" the next closest head and prevent it from activating. All very interesting and understandable why the city wants certified designers, licensed installers, and fire marshal inspections.

Perhaps the oddest thing (to me) about the PEX systems is the NFPA-approved practice of installing the fire sprinkler system in-line with domestic water service. This type of installation eliminates backflow preventors and flow sensors (smoke detectors required), and provides continual confirmation that the fire sprinkler system is ready for action every time water flows from a tap.

For those worried about flooding their home, heat detectors can be installed to automatically shut off water flow. I haven't looked into these but am curious about installation requirements, reliability, and cost.

BTW if I was doing this from scratch I'd just spec copper to put my mind at ease.
 
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Master Plumber Mark

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I have seen the horrors of sprinkler lines being frozen or burst for multiple reasons..
went into one office where the sprinkler broke on the floor above them and totally
ruined this fellas office .... took a long time to shut down the system

if you are happy then that is all that matters..... its all good
 

Speede541

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On the flip side, there's a bakery I frequent where, a few weeks ago, a parking car jumped the curb, hit the gas meter, conveniently next to the building's outdoor electrical closet, and penetrated the wall. Despite the utility company having to come out to open a trench in the parking lot to shut off gas, the building fire sprinklers kept damage isolated to just that area. It was still major damage and they'll be closed for a while to reconstruct, but without fire sprinklers, it would have been a total loss.

https://evilleeye.com/news-commenta...sion-shuts-down-arizmendi-bakery/#prettyPhoto
 
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