How Remove 3" Drop Pipe From Well?

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Qwertyjjj

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Actually just the opposite is true. As long as the pump is installed above the well screen, the smaller the casing the better cooling the motor will get.

If you want to install a pitless in 4" casing, I would cut the 4" about 7' down and change over to 5" casing up top. That way the pitless doesn't take up so much room in the 4" casing that you can't get the pump in there.
A pitless needs to connect to a polypipe outside the steel in a normal installation. So, how do you go from PVC to a pitless and then also out the steel again? Is that 2 pitless adapters?!
 

Qwertyjjj

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Cut the steel off below the change over from 4" to 5" PVC, and put the pitless on the 5" PVC.
and the 1 inch gap between the PVC and the steel, what goes there?
You need a 1inch hole in the steel for the pipe to exit also? Then a 1inch hole in the PVC.
 

ThirdGenPump

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The well was most likely retrofitted with a jazz-well seal and liner. In my area we'd typically do that if there was ground water leaking into the well, often a result of a comprised seal between the steel casing and bedrock. The jazz-well seal has 6-7 inch diameter rubber baffles around a 4 inch pvc pipe. it's forced down with additional 4 inch pvc pipe till the seal is below the ground water leakage. Then we cement it in place by pouring concrete between the steel casing and the pvc. Typically we make sure to add enough concrete to seal to above where the leakage was happening. Once cemented in it's never moving again. The top of the PVC will have some play, you can move it side to side but you'll never be able to move it up or down.

Occasionally we put them in 'temporarily' in which case no concrete is used but when we do that we'll attach a stainless steel cable around the pvc and anchor it to the steel casing the the seal can't continue down the well on it's own. To pull those back out we use a pump hoist and drop a hook to the bottom of the liner to pull it up, pulling from the top has proven problematic.

We normally cut set the top of the liner a few feet below where the pitless will be, the pitless goes through solely the steel casing. I have a cutter for cutting inside the liner in cases like yours where the liner comes up too high.

A 4 inch pump fits inside and can function just fine inside the liner. No wire protection gets used in these installations but it's never posed an issue, the wire doesn't wear hard on the liner and the presence of the liner keeps everything centered. Most my pumps end up set deeper than the liner and it can pose an issue when pulling them out if they get caught up on the transition. Some of the older jazzwell seals used cast iron and corrode smaller. Mostly it's just frustrating, brute force with a pump hoist solves a lot of problems.


You currently have no idea how much water the well can provide. As you pump water out of that the water level is going to drop. If the water level drops below 30 feet a shallow well jet pump will not work, you can use a deep well jet instead but overall they aren't that much cheaper and cause more headaches for people then they are worth.

A pump above ground in a freezing climate is also a pain because you have to take it inside each year or set it in a non-freezing location.

You can get a cheap submersible disable the check valve so no water stays above the frost line and never worry about it. Then you can just run it off the top of the well. This will result in air when it kicks on but that's not going to matter for irrigation.
 

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We normally cut set the top of the liner a few feet below where the pitless will be, the pitless goes through solely the steel casing. I have a cutter for cutting inside the liner in cases like yours where the liner comes up too high.

Yeah I agree, that would be much better than cutting the steel casing. Good tips!
 

Qwertyjjj

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The well was most likely retrofitted with a jazz-well seal and liner. In my area we'd typically do that if there was ground water leaking into the well, often a result of a comprised seal between the steel casing and bedrock. The jazz-well seal has 6-7 inch diameter rubber baffles around a 4 inch pvc pipe. it's forced down with additional 4 inch pvc pipe till the seal is below the ground water leakage. Then we cement it in place by pouring concrete between the steel casing and the pvc. Typically we make sure to add enough concrete to seal to above where the leakage was happening. Once cemented in it's never moving again. The top of the PVC will have some play, you can move it side to side but you'll never be able to move it up or down.

Occasionally we put them in 'temporarily' in which case no concrete is used but when we do that we'll attach a stainless steel cable around the pvc and anchor it to the steel casing the the seal can't continue down the well on it's own. To pull those back out we use a pump hoist and drop a hook to the bottom of the liner to pull it up, pulling from the top has proven problematic.

We normally cut set the top of the liner a few feet below where the pitless will be, the pitless goes through solely the steel casing. I have a cutter for cutting inside the liner in cases like yours where the liner comes up too high.

A 4 inch pump fits inside and can function just fine inside the liner. No wire protection gets used in these installations but it's never posed an issue, the wire doesn't wear hard on the liner and the presence of the liner keeps everything centered. Most my pumps end up set deeper than the liner and it can pose an issue when pulling them out if they get caught up on the transition. Some of the older jazzwell seals used cast iron and corrode smaller. Mostly it's just frustrating, brute force with a pump hoist solves a lot of problems.


You currently have no idea how much water the well can provide. As you pump water out of that the water level is going to drop. If the water level drops below 30 feet a shallow well jet pump will not work, you can use a deep well jet instead but overall they aren't that much cheaper and cause more headaches for people then they are worth.

A pump above ground in a freezing climate is also a pain because you have to take it inside each year or set it in a non-freezing location.

You can get a cheap submersible disable the check valve so no water stays above the frost line and never worry about it. Then you can just run it off the top of the well. This will result in air when it kicks on but that's not going to matter for irrigation.

Still strange that this liner goes all the way up then.
How can I tidy up the top old the 4" PVC so it is not jagged anymore?
Also, how do you disable a checkvavlve on a deep well submersible?
 

Reach4

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Still strange that this liner goes all the way up then.
How can I tidy up the top old the 4" PVC so it is not jagged anymore?
Also, how do you disable a check valve on a deep well submersible?
Your photo shows the PVC staying full of water to the top. It seems odd that the water level comes to the top of the PVC without spilling over. I think you need a test pump to make sure that well produces water.

If that is an artesian well, draining water down the well is not going to work.
 
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Still strange that this liner goes all the way up then.
How can I tidy up the top old the 4" PVC so it is not jagged anymore?
Also, how do you disable a checkvavlve on a deep well submersible?

Disabling the check valve is not good for the pump. If you put the pitless 6' down, you should not have to worry about freezing. But if you want to drain every thing back you can add a bleeder orifice below the pitless. As long as you do not add an additional check valve up top, the bleeder will drain the lines when you turn off power to the pump and open a faucet to let out the pressure.
 

Qwertyjjj

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Disabling the check valve is not good for the pump. If you put the pitless 6' down, you should not have to worry about freezing. But if you want to drain every thing back you can add a bleeder orifice below the pitless. As long as you do not add an additional check valve up top, the bleeder will drain the lines when you turn off power to the pump and open a faucet to let out the pressure.
This will however let air intu the system (maybe 6ft distance from bleed valve to top of well) so if I have a pressure tank at the top of the well, then it's going to get air added to it in between cycles?
...and presumably eventually mess up the pressure?
 

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This will however let air intu the system (maybe 6ft distance from bleed valve to top of well) so if I have a pressure tank at the top of the well, then it's going to get air added to it in between cycles?
...and presumably eventually mess up the pressure?

No it will not let air into the system. As I said, as long as you do not have an additional check valve up top, (anywhere above the bleeder) the bleeder will not open and let air in. As long as the bleeder is pressurized, like when the system is working between 40 and 60 PSI, it stays closed. But when you get ready to drain the system, you simply turn off the pump, open a faucet to drain the system pressure, and the bleeder will open and drain to that point.

If you watch at the faucet, water will come out until the tank is empty, then you can hear and feel a vacuum as the faucet lets air in and the lines drain out.

I do recommend a brass bleeder with a ball, not the rubber ones.
 

Qwertyjjj

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AH I see, so there's a kind of ball that blocks off the hole under pressure?
Presumably though when you come back to fill up the pressure tank next season, then it pumps a whole load of air into the bladder until water gets to it?
 

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AH I see, so there's a kind of ball that blocks off the hole under pressure?
Presumably though when you come back to fill up the pressure tank next season, then it pumps a whole load of air into the bladder until water gets to it?
If that bothers you, you could open a valve before turning on the pump. Do you intend to have a pressure tank for your irrigation well? That is not necessary needed.
 

Qwertyjjj

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If that bothers you, you could open a valve before turning on the pump. Do you intend to have a pressure tank for your irrigation well? That is not necessary needed.
You mean like the tap right at the end? It's just a general question as I'm replacing a pressure tank inside the house as well. That little bit of air that gets into the bladder would remain as a bubble at the top of the rubber bladder in the pressure tank, no?

I can try the outside one without, just figured that as it was for a vegetable garden, either the pressure would not be enough from the deep well pump (1/2HP) or if I wanted to use soaker hoses then it would be too much and the pump would be cycling on all the time. Really depends on the flow.
 

Reach4

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For the house well, when you have a pressure tank with water pressure less than the precharge, there is effectively no air or water below the diaphragm. So you will not end up with a big semi-permanent air bubble. Even during normal operation with regular pressure, there will only be a little air which will disappear; it dissolves into the water. The house plumbing will also be full of air when you restart the drained system. You will just let that out.

Really depends on the flow.
Yes. You could have no pressure tank. You could have a psidekick with little water. https://cpkits.com/products/pk1a Or you could have a big pressure tank.
 

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Like Reach said, when you turn on the system for the first time, you will need to let the air out of a faucet, the same way you let the air in to drain the lines. But the pressure tank won't be a problem. If any air gets in the tank, it will come right back out the first time a faucet is open.

And pressure tanks do not make pressure. You will need a large enough pump to give the pressure and flow you need for the garden. But when you want to use something small like the soaker hose, you either need a very large tank to limit the pump cycling, or a CSV to eliminate the pump cycling. And you can use a CSV with or without a pressure tank, and the CSV will hold the same pressure on the soaker hose as it does on the large sprinkler zones.

The pressure tank with a CSV would just allow the pump to come on automatically when you open a faucet and go off when you close the faucets. Without the pressure tank/switch you will need to manually turn the pump on when you need water, and make sure to turn the pump off before or instead of closing the faucets. If you forget to turn off the pump and close all the faucets, the pump will melt down in about 5 minutes.
 

Qwertyjjj

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Right. I flow tested this well and it's not looking promising.
1st attempt, the water came out clean for 5 mins then I turned it off. Left it for 1 week.
2nd attempt, it ran for 1 min before drying up. Water was very grey coloured.
Left for 1hr.
3rd attempt, it ran for less than 1min before drying up. Water was again very grey coloured.
Left for 2hrs.
Pump ran but no water at all.

I was still able to see water in the surrounding metal but none inside the 4" pipe.

Any thoughts on what I can do or is this well a goner.
 
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ThirdGenPump

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I think something is wrong with your flow test. You should have gotten longer run time based on that starting water level. What did you put in there for a pump? How deep did you go? What's supporting the weight? Pull it up 20ft and try again, I think you pulled muck into the intake. Why the hell are you doing this in sandals?
 

Qwertyjjj

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I think something is wrong with your flow test. You should have gotten longer run time based on that starting water level. What did you put in there for a pump? How deep did you go? What's supporting the weight? Pull it up 20ft and try again, I think you pulled muck into the intake. Why the hell are you doing this in sandals?
Lol. Why not - it's hot :)

50ft. Only pipe is supporting the weight as everyone said not to use a safety rope. If I pull it up 20ft it just drops back down.
If there was muck in the intake then it shouldn't be outputting any water at all?

I put in this:
$(KGrHqNHJC8E-m8BedrvBPvwv8dWlw--60_3.JPG
 

ThirdGenPump

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Lol. Why not - it's hot :)

50ft. Only pipe is supporting the weight as everyone said not to use a safety rope. If I pull it up 20ft it just drops back down.
If there was muck in the intake then it shouldn't be outputting any water at all?

I put in this:
View attachment 34918

Because you are working with water, electricity and heavy things you can drop on your toes. I don't expect people to be running around in rated boots/clothes but some insulation between the water and your skin might stop a Darwin award.

You don't use a safety rope to keep it off the bottom, just put a clamp on the pipe so you can rest the weight on the casing.

If the pump is on the bottom of the well it's only going to pump water till it pulls enough crap into the intake to block flow. When you shut it off the crap falls off and you repeat the process until you destroy the pump. Pull it up a bit so it's not doing that. If it's only 50 feet try just 10 feet off the bottom.
 

Qwertyjjj

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Because you are working with water, electricity and heavy things you can drop on your toes. I don't expect people to be running around in rated boots/clothes but some insulation between the water and your skin might stop a Darwin award.

You don't use a safety rope to keep it off the bottom, just put a clamp on the pipe so you can rest the weight on the casing.

If the pump is on the bottom of the well it's only going to pump water till it pulls enough crap into the intake to block flow. When you shut it off the crap falls off and you repeat the process until you destroy the pump. Pull it up a bit so it's not doing that. If it's only 50 feet try just 10 feet off the bottom.
Fair enough although I never stepped in the water :)

What type of clamp can be used to hang a vertical pipe off the casing? Or at least something temporary to do the flow test.
 
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