Help Selecting Water Softener System

[OtherFWord]

I am looking to replace my gold series Culligan with something else. I am leaning towards Fleck but open to other options. Culligan came out and recommended to replace my current with an HE1 10". The pricing was just outrageous.

I have been looking at the Fleck 5600SXT, 5810SXT and the 5810 XTR2. What would be recommended? Open to Clack as well.

The other thing I am having trouble figuring out is what resin tank to get. I assume I want a 10" based on what Culligan was recommending but having trouble finding that it seems everything goes off grains and I cant seem to figure out what would be appropriate. I contacted my water company and the hardness was 15. So I have that to go off and that we are using the water of a family of 6. From reading it seems if I get to big of a resin tank like 96,000 grains i could be wasting salt. So it seems to err on the side of caution when sizing but dont over size it.

One thing we are having issues with now that we want to make sure does not happen on the new unit is water pressure. From the supply its perfect but inside the house its terrible. Culligan and some others i talked to seem to think its a breakdown in the resin tank since its so old. But I just want to make sure whatever I buy is sized right and we have 0 pressure issues.

I assume Brine tank is the least important since its just holding the salt?

 

[Reach4]

I have been looking at the Fleck 5600SXT, 5810SXT and the 5810 XTR2.

How big is the pipe to the softener? If 3/4 consider 5600SXT. If 1 inch, consider the other two. 5810SXT and the 5810 XTR2 are not advertised due to restrictions. They are available, as are parts.

Each has its advantages.

A 10x54 is a great size for most people. It holds 1.5 cubic ft of media. In advertizing, it is often called a 48000 grain system, but never use that 48000 for any calculations. Just think of it as a convention.

Open to Clack as well.

Clack limits sales of their equipment and parts to local dealers/plumbers rather than dealers who will ship to you.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[OtherFWord]

How big is the pipe to the softener? If 3/4 consider 5600SXT. If 1 inch, consider the other two. 5810SXT and the 5810 XTR2 are not advertised due to restrictions. They are available, as are parts.

Each has its advantages.

A 10x54 is a great size for most people. It holds 1.5 cubic ft of media. In advertizing, it is often called a 48000 grain system, but never use that 48000 for any calculations. Just think of it as a convention.


Clack limits sales of their equipment and parts to local dealers/plumbers rather than dealers who will ship to you.

So how would I find out the size of the pipe on my existing unit? Do I measure all the way around?

 

[Reach4]

So how would I find out the size of the pipe on my existing unit? Do I measure all the way around?

If you have to, wrap a string, mark the string, and measure the distance between the marks. Divide by pi (3.14) to get the diameter.

However this would be a good time to get a digital caliper. It's useful for many measurements.

 

[ditttohead]

Post a picture of the old unit and plumbing, we can usually guess the size fairly well... usually...

 

[OtherFWord]

Post a picture of the old unit and plumbing, we can usually guess the size fairly well... usually...

Here is 3 pictures. Do they help?

 

[OtherFWord]

If you have to, wrap a string, mark the string, and measure the distance between the marks. Divide by pi (3.14) to get the diameter.

However this would be a good time to get a digital caliper. It's useful for many measurements.

So I did this to the best of my ability. Based on my photo pretty sure its 3 3/4" so i did 3.75 / 3.14 and got 1.194 So I assume its 1"?

 

[Reach4]

You might want to lift any easy-to-remove cover, if any, and take a picture of the front. That would be useful, including to identify which pipe is the in and which is the out. They are not all the same.

A 1 inch pipe diameter is 1.125 (1-1/8).

The distance around (circumference) would be 3.53. Your measure was pretty close to that.

Your pipe would therefore appear to be 1 inch copper pipe, and not 3/4 inch.

Another measure that you could use is that pegboard holes are on 1 inch centers.

 

[OtherFWord]

You might want to lift any easy-to-remove cover, if any, and take a picture of the front. That would be useful, including to identify which pipe is the in and which is the out. They are not all the same.

A 1 inch pipe diameter is 1.125 (1-1/8).

The distance around (circumference) would be 3.53. Your measure was pretty close to that.

Your pipe would therefore appear to be 1 inch copper pipe, and not 3/4 inch.

Another measure that you could use is that pegboard holes are on 1 inch centers.

A reply to another user in this thread I have other pics. The pipes appear to be the same size. And they have arrows pointing in and out. From the pics it looks like the pipe is the same size.

 

[Reach4]

A reply to another user in this thread I have other pics. The pipes appear to be the same size. And they have arrows pointing in and out. From the pics it looks like the pipe is the same size.

Somebody may be motivated to search that out.

This thread only had pictures on post #6, and none of those three was the front of the valve.

 

[OtherFWord]

Somebody may be motivated to search that out.

This thread only had pictures on post #6, and none of those three was the front of the valve.

Do you mean the front as to where it comes in from the main?

 

[Reach4]

Do you mean the front as to where it comes in from the main?

Front like what you see when you stand in front. Where the settings are entered. Front where the LED or LCD or rotating dial display is.

 

[Bannerman]

The current softener is of no consequence as you plan to replace the entire unit. Your previous measurement and photos confirm your plumbing is not 3/4" nor 1.25" so it will be 1" so whatever unit you choose needs to have 1" or larger connections.

When sizing a softener, the total capacity of the resin is not to be depleted before regeneration occurs. A softener will operate much more efficiently when only a portion of the resin's softening capacity is utilized before it is regenerated.

As your water is municipal, it is often obtained from multiple sources, and each may have a different hardness quantity. While your water company may have stated the water hardness is 15 grains per gallon, that will be the average hardness from all sources combined, but that does not mean that will be the hardness at your home. It is advisable to test the hardness at your location, and then add 2-3 gpg when programming the softener so as to anticipate occasions when hardness may be higher than expected. This can occur due to town residents using higher than average water when preparing for work/school, or distribution system or well maintenance.

Average water consumption is typically between 50-75 gallons per day per person. If we anticipate 60 gallons X 6 people = 360 gallons/day. If we anticipate a hardness setting of 17 gpg, then 360 X 17 = 6,120 grains per day hardness load. As it is most efficient for regeneration to occur somewhere between 1X per week to 1X per month, this will then allow for a broad range of softener capacities.

A softener containing 2 cubic feet of resin will have a total resin capacity of 64,000 grains, but to regenerate that capacity will require 40 lbs salt each regeneration cycle which would be extremely inefficient (64,000 / 40 = 1,600 grains per lb). If that same softener is programmed to regenerate when 48,000 grains have been used, then only 16 lbs salt will be needed, thereby raising the hardness removal efficiency to 3,000 grains per lb of salt.

48,000 / 6,120 = 7.8 (=7) days estimated regeneration frequency. A 2 ft3 softener then would be the smallest size suitable for your requirements, but a 2.5 or larger unit would be recommended.

2.5 ft3 = 80K grains total capacity
When programmed to deliver 60K grains, then 20 lbs salt needed (60,000 / 20 = 3,000 gr per lb)
60,000 / 6,120 = 9.8 (9) days estimated regeneration frequency.

3.0 ft3 = 96K grains total capacity
When programmed to deliver 72K grains, then 24 lbs salt needed (72,000 / 24 = 3,000 gr per lb)
72,000 / 6,120 = 11.7 (11) days estimated regeneration frequency.

 

[Reach4]

The current softener is of no consequence as you plan to replace the entire unit.

Given the arrows, I now agree.

 

[OtherFWord]

The current softener is of no consequence as you plan to replace the entire unit. Your previous measurement and photos confirm your plumbing is not 3/4" nor 1.25" so it will be 1" so whatever unit you choose needs to have 1" or larger connections.

When sizing a softener, the total capacity of the resin is not to be depleted before regeneration occurs. A softener will operate much more efficiently when only a portion of the resin's softening capacity is utilized before it is regenerated.

As your water is municipal, it is often obtained from multiple sources, and each may have a different hardness quantity. While your water company may have stated the water hardness is 15 grains per gallon, that will be the average hardness from all sources combined, but that does not mean that will be the hardness at your home. It is advisable to test the hardness at your location, and then add 2-3 gpg when programming the softener so as to anticipate occasions when hardness may be higher than expected. This can occur due to town residents using higher than average water when preparing for work/school, or distribution system or well maintenance.

Average water consumption is typically between 50-75 gallons per day per person. If we anticipate 60 gallons X 6 people = 360 gallons/day. If we anticipate a hardness setting of 17 gpg, then 360 X 17 = 6,120 grains per day hardness load. As it is most efficient for regeneration to occur somewhere between 1X per week to 1X per month, this will then allow for a broad range of softener capacities.

A softener containing 2 cubic feet of resin will have a total resin capacity of 64,000 grains, but to regenerate that capacity will require 40 lbs salt each regeneration cycle which would be extremely inefficient (64,000 / 40 = 1,600 grains per lb). If that same softener is programmed to regenerate when 48,000 grains have been used, then only 16 lbs salt will be needed, thereby raising the hardness removal efficiency to 3,000 grains per lb of salt.

48,000 / 6,120 = 7.8 (=7) days estimated regeneration frequency. A 2 ft3 softener then would be the smallest size suitable for your requirements, but a 2.5 or larger unit would be recommended.

2.5 ft3 = 80K grains total capacity
When programmed to deliver 60K grains, then 20 lbs salt needed (60,000 / 20 = 3,000 gr per lb)
60,000 / 6,120 = 9.8 (9) days estimated regeneration frequency.

3.0 ft3 = 96K grains total capacity
When programmed to deliver 72K grains, then 24 lbs salt needed (72,000 / 24 = 3,000 gr per lb)
72,000 / 6,120 = 11.7 (11) days estimated regeneration frequency.

Thank you for all of this info. So that means my choice is a Fleck 5810SXT with a 82,500 tank? Does that mean it will be a 10" resin tank with the 82,500 tank? I used my water bill and estimated it at 100 per not 75. But we do have some stuff not on soft water so hard to get 100% accuracy on that. Are we allowed to post external site links here? Wanted to post what I found. All local dealers dont sell the parts so I need to buy online.

 

[Reach4]

Thank you for all of this info. So that means my choice is a Fleck 5810SXT with a 82,500 tank? Does that mean it will be a 10" resin tank with the 82,500 tank? I used my water bill and estimated it at 100 per not 75. But we do have some stuff not on soft water so hard to get 100% accuracy on that. Are we allowed to post external site links here? Wanted to post what I found. All local dealers dont sell the parts so I need to buy online.

I agree that you want a 12" x 52" 2.00 cu. ft. ( "64,0000" grains ) or a
13" x 54" 2.50 cu. ft. ( "80,000" grains ) tank.

Click Inbox, above.

 

[Bannerman]

Does that mean it will be a 10" resin tank with the 82,500 tank?

A 10" diameter tank will be suitable for only 1.5 ft3 of resin (48K total capacity)
A 12" for 2.0 ft3, 13" for 2.5 ft3 and 14" for 3.0 ft3.

Although your first supplier quoted a 10" diameter softener, since many of their systems are preconfigured, they will often attempt to shoehorn potential customers into whatever they have available as opposed to building an appropriate system to satisfy the customer's specific requirements.

I used my water bill and estimated it at 100 per not 75.

I based my estimates on 60 gallons per person, not 75. As I have demonstrated how to perform the usage calculations, you can now do so yourself using the water consumption estimates you deem appropriate.

The Fleck and Clack softeners may be configured to deliver a wide range of capacities as determined by the salt amount. The examples above are each based on 8 lbs salt per cubic foot of resin.

Other capacities and efficiencies may be realized, but the water quality and programmed capacity will decline as efficiency increases further. The settings I recommended usually offer the best balance of efficiency, capacity and water quality.

 

[OtherFWord]

A 10" diameter tank will be suitable for only 1.5 ft3 of resin (48K total capacity)
A 12" for 2.0 ft3, 13" for 2.5 ft3 and 14" for 3.0 ft3.

Although your first supplier quoted a 10" diameter softener, since many of their systems are preconfigured, they will often attempt to shoehorn potential customers into whatever they have available as opposed to building an appropriate system to satisfy their specific requirements.


I based my estimates on 60 gallons per person, not 75. As I have demonstrated how to perform these usage calculations, you can now do so yourself using the water estimates you deem appropriate.

The Fleck and Clack softeners can be configured to deliver a wide range of capacities as determined by the salt amount. The examples above are each based on 8 lbs salt per cubic foot of resin.

Other capacities and efficiencies may be realized, but the water quality and programmed capacity will decline as efficiency increases further. The settings I recommended usually offer the best balance of efficiency, capacity and water quality.

Understood. I prefer your logic thus far. It makes the most sense to me. But based on what you wrote and reading the 80k seems the most appropriate, right? Am I able to post links here? So I can post the one I am thinking of getting.

 

[Bannerman]

As you have indicated your water usage is higher than my estimates, you may wish to recalculate the capacity needed. As mentioned, the usual recommendation is no more than 1 regeneration per week but exceeding 7 days up to 30 days is OK.

Fleck, as did Clack before them, stopped sales to online dealers as there were various customer support issues. As such, both Clack and Fleck chose to market their newest control valves models (ie: Fleck 5800, 5810 and 5812) only through authorized dealers who install and properly support the products they sell.

Although you should not be able to purchase a 5810SXT online, if you found someone selling them online, does not necessarily mean those systems will utilize the same quality components as offered through an authorized local dealer. Often, online dealers will pair a quality Fleck valve with low-quality tanks, distributors, resin etc. They will also usually exclude gravel under bedding to save weight since shipping is usually included in the price. When gravel under bedding is not included, then the included tank height will also be often shorter to save a few additional dollars, but then the tank may be too short to prevent system owners from adding gravel themselves.

 

[OtherFWord]

As you have indicated your water usage is higher than my estimates, you may wish to recalculate the capacity needed. As mentioned, the usual recommendation is no more than 1 regeneration per week but exceeding 7 days up to 30 days is OK.

Fleck, as did Clack before them, stopped sales to online dealers as there were various customer support issues. As such, both Clack and Fleck chose to market their newest control valves models (ie: Fleck 5800, 5810 and 5812) only through authorized dealers who install and properly support the products they sell.

Although you should not be able to purchase a 5810SXT online, if you found someone selling them online, does not necessarily mean those systems will utilize the same quality components as offered through an authorized local dealer. Often, online dealers will pair a quality Fleck valve with low-quality tanks, distributors, resin etc. They will also usually exclude gravel under bedding to save weight since shipping is usually included in the price. When gravel under bedding is not included, then the included tank height will also be often shorter to save a few additional dollars, but then the tank may be too short to prevent system owners from adding gravel themselves.

So is it worth it to pay the 2.5-3x cost for the to install? Seems like quite the premium but its really a project I just want to get done so I can move past it. set it and forget it.