Estimate too low ?!

[Jimbo]

Delta may provide some stuff to you...the homeowner...but they will not give that stuff away to your plumber.

 

[Geniescience]

this long thread makes me think that Plumbing is a Serious Profession. I think it deserves a special distinction. The trade and professional activity need to be upgraded in the eyes of the general public.

david

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Coach606]

upgrade...

I'm a teacher, a profession also badly in need of an upgrade. But I can tell you this, I have great respect for plumbers. It is an educated and skilled profession and you pros command an impressive salary, in my opinion.

As I said earlier, no one would pay me $150 to install a toilet. The people who don't respect plumbers are the same people who don't respect teachers... kids, or ubber rich people. Until you actually have to make it in the world, lots of things look easy, plumbing and teaching included. I can tell you now, being a GOOD teacher is not so easy. I know it looked easy when you were in high school, but it ain't a walk in the park.

I think a lot of people genuinely respect plumbers, more so even than teachers. A lot of people say they respect teachers, but I often feel it's more politically correct than true.

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

The only discrepancy is that he thought we'd have to tear thru our wall to replace the 10 yr old Delta Monitor trim (showerhead, neck and lever) in our stand up shower but the Delta helpline said it was not necessary and mentioned that the warranty would provide us a free new set with cartridge for conversion ... hopeful our plumber was just playing it safe in making his judgment...

The only way I can say this possibility arised was out of the fact that you might of wanted a brushed nickel finish which isn't offered on the 600 series model valve. I do believe some company is making an aftermarket, but not Delta.

A good deal of my customers have wanted to do this to update their bathrooms to a more modern look.

 

[SteveW]

this long thread makes me think that Plumbing is a Serious Profession. I think it deserves a special distinction. The trade and professional activity need to be upgraded in the eyes of the general public.

david

I agree!



Along these lines, here's a book I heard reviewed on the radio. Sounds fascinating:

"Flushed: How the Plumber Saved Civilization"
by W. Hodding Carter

 

[lpennington]

Delta may provide some stuff to you...the homeowner...but they will not give that stuff away to your plumber.

True true. I would hope that Delta makes such things available to the plumbing profession ... we were about to pay for our wall to get ripped out unnecessarily (plus having to take another say off for the sheetrock person to put the bathroom back together again ).

 

[lpennington]

I'm a teacher, a profession also badly in need of an upgrade. But I can tell you this, I have great respect for plumbers. It is an educated and skilled profession and you pros command an impressive salary, in my opinion.

I earn my living due to my own expertise and I hate it when people don't value my time etc. I've only owned a home for the 2 yrs I've been out of my residency and my uneducated observations have been that it's hard to distinguish the high level plumbings who are true engineers from the people who shouldn't be allowed to do it at all . . . maybe all states should have their plumbing licenses easily searchable. Vermont's is a piece of cake, Pa isn't if they even make plumbers get licenses. Doesn't solve the societal view issue but it'll lower the supply of plumbers which in turn'll make people appreciate them more and their fees increase...

 

[Cass]

The truth is that a licence means nothing, it does help with some knowlage. I have done repairs on plumbing that jackleg plumbers have done and that licenced plumbers have done. It all has to do with character. There isn't any reason a jackleg can't do it as well as a licenced plumber except that they both are lazy. 1 doesn't want to take the time to learn how to do it right, the other doesn't want to take the time and/or spend the $$$ needed to do the job right or make that extra trip to get the item he didn't have on the truck.

Then there is the plumbers pipe side manner. That is a discussion for another day.

 

[lpennington]

Well ... just received word of the estimate for this job (installing 2 new Toto Drakes in a 10 yr old home ... no problems plus changing a showerhead, neck, and plate/trim in shower... no need for tear thru wall w/ the cartridge Delta sent)

and the total was $1150 where our plumbers would purchase the toilets for us but we get the shower pieces. I only priced out the toilets at $650-700. At $60/hr I was trying to figure out where they saw all the time coming from!

Or am I not respecting the complexity of the job? [it was on this board where folks said a toilet install isn't that long of a process]

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Why Dont You Use A Stop Watch

Just let the man make a living.....for god sakes....

if you are going to " time him " from start to finish

you wont find a lot of plumbers that are going to want to step

foot in your home again.....


Recently I did some work for a customer of mine and quoted them about

$2200 for quite a number of things they wanted done in their house

I showed up like the Normandy Invasion with 4 other fellows and had
all the work completed by noon.....

Then , I get a rather snotty e-mail r asking me to break down my time and materials.... AFTER we had agreed on the price and everything was done......


I sent her a polite letter back apologiseing for getting the work done so

quickly and then asking her if I would have done it all by myself

and taken a few days to do it would she have been happier??

Also if I were to run into some unfor-seen troubles

and it would have taken me another two days to do this work

than I thought it should have ,

would she have been willing to pay me for my extra time and

suffering???????


I got my check a few days later....


Again......let him do his job......for the price quoted

no matter how long it takes him......

 

[lpennington]

Just let the man make a living.....for god sakes....

Again......let him do his job......for the price quoted

no matter how long it takes him......

my bad ... did I ask anything wrong? I'm a 1st time homeowner. I wanted a reality check on prices. Which is why I asked here in the 1st place and before I asked anything that could've insulted my plumber.

There are plenty of stories about folks getting taken advantage of so you do your homework beforehand. I did the same sort of price checking before I let my wife purchase a washing machine and before buying my car. I was just trying to be a smart consumer not a cheapskate!

 

[Coach606]

Get another quote...

If you don't like the price, try another plumber if there's another one you trust to do a good job. Or you can always do it yourself save like 70%.

 

[lpennington]

I don't know whether to like the price or not ... I just threw as much info out on here to see if several people responded with "that's highway robbery!!" or "that's fair."

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

I had a customer call me tonight wanting a price to replace 3 toilets and repair two leaky faucets.

I quoted her $350 to $450 for all of it. She was "shocked" by my quote and made a comment that her husband's friend had come over one time and reset a toilet that only took minutes to reset.

Hrmm.........

Let's see, she is telling me that she paid $188 plus tax for each toilet but expects someone to take 15 minutes to install one? No way.

I didn't budge on my price either and told her that I am going off of an hourly rate times 3 to figure the cost. Told her that there are others that will work cheaper than I but I am thorough and know that surprises come along the way with replacing a toilet like a cracked flange or other issue with flooring dimensions.

She seemed to know her plumbing better than I since she commented that they didn't have any of those issues to worry about. Okie dokie.......I guess I just made up all those circumstances when I told her that didn't I?

I'm thinking she needs a handyman, not a plumber.

I mentioned this because I get this sort of thing from time to time. It was a good referral but I expect my incoming customer base to be realistic with their inquiry to my pricing.

Funny how you can spend over $600 on toilets but want to whittle down what the installer gets to put them in. That's what I get for not letting the phone call go to the answering machine first.

 

[Cass]

Well ... just received word of the estimate for this job (installing 2 new Toto Drakes in a 10 yr old home ... no problems plus changing a showerhead, neck, and plate/trim in shower... no need for tear thru wall w/ the cartridge Delta sent)

and the total was $1150 where our plumbers would purchase the toilets for us but we get the shower pieces. I only priced out the toilets at $650-700. At $60/hr I was trying to figure out where they saw all the time coming from!

Or am I not respecting the complexity of the job? [it was on this board where folks said a toilet install isn't that long of a process]

Where did you come up with / get the $60.00/Hr.? I haven't been at that low rate for a long time.

 

[SteveW]

I had a customer call me tonight wanting a price to replace 3 toilets and repair two leaky faucets.

I quoted her $350 to $450 for all of it. She was "shocked" by my quote and made a comment that her husband's friend had come over one time and reset a toilet that only took minutes to reset.

Hrmm.........

....

Funny how you can spend over $600 on toilets but want to whittle down what the installer gets to put them in. That's what I get for not letting the phone call go to the answering machine first.

Speaking purely as a consumer, when I read this I was trying to gauge my reaction to the price quote. My gut feeling was it was VERY reasonable, esp. if you do know a little something about what can and often does go wrong.

Part of the problem, I suspect, is that professionals make jobs look easier than they really are, just because they are so good at doing them, can anticipate bad consequences and take those little extra steps to prevent them, etc.

As we've discussed on this forum, toilet installation is deceptive. Looks pretty easy to the layman, but a lot of stuff can go wrong -- some of it causing major problems way down the road, like if the wax ring doesn't seal AND you caulk completely around the base of the toilet, leading to water damage. Few laymen would anticipate that problem.

 

[lpennington]

As we've discussed on this forum, toilet installation is deceptive. Looks pretty easy to the layman, but a lot of stuff can go wrong -- some of it causing major problems way down the road, like if the wax ring doesn't seal AND you caulk completely around the base of the toilet, leading to water damage. Few laymen would anticipate that problem.

Very true statement. I didn't know about a fraction of the technical considerations ... That's definitely what made me not use an unlicensed plumber. He sounded like he knew what he was talking about. He was a nice guy etc, but I cannot have my downstairs ceilings destroyed due to a mishap nor would I want two $300 toilets messed up b/c he tightened something too much etc.

 

[lpennington]

Where did you come up with / get the $60.00/Hr.? I haven't been at that low rate for a long time.

That came from the plumbing's receptionist but it turned out she was mistaken! This morning, I looked at a fax of he quote they'd sent to my office and it had an estimated time figure using $120/hr so she just had something on her mind that day.

Our Drakes and new shower trim should be installed sometime next week!