Copper Pipe Joint Burst

[DIY4plex]

Hello All,

I have owned a four-plex since 2006. We turned off the water main while remodeling one unit. When we turned the water main back on, a copper pipe joint burst in another unit behind the kitchen drawers flooding a large area. Luckily the contractor happened to be there to quickly turn off the water, and helped solder the burst copper joint connection.

The contractor mentioned that the quality of the copper soldering in the area that burst was concerning. So I had my usual plumber come by, and he barely looked at the area, and really didn’t want to give an opinion about the quality of the copper pipe connections. He said we could not do “touch up soldering” and we would have to remove the kitchen cabinets and drywall to redo the whole area. He quoted 40K!

So now I am at a quandary of what to do. Do I just leave things alone because things have been mostly stable for 15 years, or do I get an inspection from another plumber?

Please see the attached pictures to have an idea of the copper soldering.

Thank you for your guidance!

 

[Breplum]

I would just make sure your insurance covers water damage and then do a 1031 Tax Deferred Exchange into another property or DST.
Generally, I have seen a few other plumbers bad joints over the years. What I have seen were scary, but the net total problem is small.
Your history shows that it should be ok to not worry...though, I might say otherwise if I took a few samples apart.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[DIY4plex]

No pics showed up.
I would just make sure your insurance covers water damage and then do a 1031 Tax Deferred Exchange into another property or DST.
Generally, I have seen a few other plumbers bad joints over the years. What I have seen were scary, but the net total problem is small.
Your history shows that it should be ok to not worry...though, I might say otherwise if I took a few samples apart.

No pics showed up.
I would just make sure your insurance covers water damage and then do a 1031 Tax Deferred Exchange into another property or DST.
Generally, I have seen a few other plumbers bad joints over the years. What I have seen were scary, but the net total problem is small.
Your history shows that it should be ok to not worry...though, I might say otherwise if I took a few samples apart.

Thank you breplum! I think the definition of the photos was too high, and so would not upload.

 

[Reach4]

Thank you breplum! I think the definition of the photos was too high, and so would not upload.

800 pixels and 200 Kbytes max.

 

[Jeff H Young]

15 years no leaks. I suppose I'd decide whether I wanted to repipe. But Likely I'd chance it

 

[DIY4plex]

15 years no leaks i suppose Id decide whether i wanted to repipe . but Likely Id chance it

Thanks Jeff. I’m thinking the same thing to simply leave it alone. I posted some pictures with a lower resolution and it uploaded this time. I was hoping the plumber would inspect the joints carefully and solder any concerning areas.

 

[JohnCT]

I'm not a pro, but I can tell you that even my first attempt at sweating was far superior to this. I mean, it looks like they even tried to do an exterior solder on the left pipe bottom elbow. I don't know if that was a previous local repair or if the whole house is plumbed this way.

Honestly, I can't see how that passed an inspection.

But I'd just repair what was there and call it a day. 15 years history is significant.

I just sold my last tri-plex. What a great day, although I still wake up in the middle of the night expecting some kind of call...

John

 

[DIY4plex]

I'm not a pro, but I can tell you that even my first attempt at sweating was far superior to this. I mean, it looks like they even tried to do an exterior solder on the left pipe bottom elbow. I don't know if that was a previous local repair or if the whole house is plumbed this way.

Honestly, I can't see how that passed an inspection.

But I'd just repair what was there and call it a day. 15 years history is significant.

I just sold my last tri-plex. What a great day, although I still wake up in the middle of the night expecting some kind of call...

John

Hi John, thanks for the feedback regarding the quality of the soldering. The bottom left soldering was done by my contractor repairing the break. I wasn’t there so I don’t know if he prepped it fully. I hope you enjoy your time away from rentals!

 

[Jeff H Young]

If you been around construction and remodel 1 on this type of work hardly anyone pulls permits so there is no inspection 2 when permit is pulled inspections are often minimal peek at work.
I was going to guess bottom left was the repair. I'd leave it alone or pay a guy to cut out everything you see no big deal but I've resoldered leaky joints, It's what we don't see I'd be worried about and what good is worry without action?

 

[JohnCT]

Hi John, thanks for the feedback regarding the quality of the soldering. The bottom left soldering was done by my contractor repairing the break. I wasn’t there so I don’t know if he prepped it fully. I hope you enjoy your time away from rentals!

Other than the occasional nightmare waking me up screaming in a cold sweat, it's great!! I'm too old to deal with that stuff anymore..

Properly soldered pipe should look unsoldered except for the telltale silver stripe around the joint.

That one looks like the solder was built up to plug a leak. Hopefully it looks worse than it is.


John

 

[Weekend Handyman]

I'm not a pro, but I can tell you that even my first attempt at sweating was far superior to this. I mean, it looks like they even tried to do an exterior solder on the left pipe bottom elbow. I don't know if that was a previous local repair or if the whole house is plumbed this way.

Honestly, I can't see how that passed an inspection.

But I'd just repair what was there and call it a day. 15 years history is significant.

I just sold my last tri-plex. What a great day, although I still wake up in the middle of the night expecting some kind of call...

John

I am also not a pro … if the inspector (i.e. the wife) saw my work looking like that, I would be ‘fired’.

 

[Jeff H Young]

From this angle view that "proper" joint looks clean but it takes a real goods look to guarantee its not a leaker. When a guy is on his back in an attic or under a house they tend to get a little sloppy and use more solder. The overfed doesn't look good .
I definitely would not trust that proper joint if I soldered it without being able to see around it. It very well could be perfect joint but in a tight area you gotta see it all. My thoughts

 

[Taylorjm]

To me it doesn't look like the joints were prepped right. The solder seems to only be on the surface and dripping instead of being sucked into the joint. I agree with others that when in some difficult areas, I do tend to overfill the joint, but a simple wiping would smooth it all out. That looks like they kept trying to feed it in and it didn't take. Either they didn't clean the pipe, use flux or there was water in the line.

 

[hj]

The major defects would be INSIDE the joint and there is NO WAY you can determine them without disassembling them, which would be more work than just cutting them out and replacing them. This of course would create a LOT MORE joints, any one of which COULD also be defective/deficient.

 

[DIY4plex]

I really appreciate everyone’s feedback! I think the take home message that I am reading from this is that the soldering quality is less than desirable, but given that the other joints have been stable for at least 15 years, best to leave things alone for now.

 

[JohnCT]

The major defects would be INSIDE the joint and there is NO WAY you can determine them without disassembling them, which would be more work than just cutting them out and replacing them. This of course would create a LOT MORE joints, any one of which COULD also be defective/deficient.

That's true, but in my experience, it's difficult if not impossible to build up a cone of solder around a joint if the connection is clean, fluxed, and heated properly. Under those conditions, the solder will be sucked into the joint by capillary action and any excess drops off. The fact that there is that much solder sitting on top of a properly prepped connection is troubling to me.

I did the volcano of solder trick a couple of times to stop a sprayer joint as a temporary measure until I could get back to redo the joint or replace the elbows or couplings. To do that type of build-up exterior solder requires a lot less heat than required to get the solder to wick.

John