Clogged shower drain

[ANGELA ANGOTTA]

I had my home built about three years ago and I have had issue after issue. One that is reoccurring is that the upstairs shower keeps clogging up and then leaks into the room below it. My whole ceiling in the room below will have to be replaced now

I just had another clog and big leak, so I really want to try any find the problem instead of using liquid plumber (didn't help at all). I opened the drain and I cannot really see down it. There is also something sticking out from the side of the drain as you can see in the up close picture. It felt like some sort of hard plastic? The other stuff is hard but I can hit it hard and it kind of crumbles. I am hoping you can tell me what this might be in the drain and if chipping it away myself would be bad idea. I'll attach pics with and without flash.

Thank you!

 

[Reach4]

I just had another clog and big leak, so I really want to try any find the problem instead of using liquid plumber (didn't help at all). I opened the drain and I cannot really see down it. There is also something sticking out from the side of the drain as you can see in the up close picture. It felt like some sort of hard plastic? The other stuff is hard but I can hit it hard and it kind of crumbles. I am hoping you can tell me what this might be in the drain and if chipping it away myself would be bad idea.

Try scraping the crud up. Maybe use a spoon as a tool. Is it really hard?

After you get that crud up as best you can, I would put a garden hose down the hole, and

1. see if the flow backs up
2. if it does not back up, do you get a leak?

It is best to have a helper to control the spigot for the garden hose, but you could add a valve on the end of a hose and control the flow yourself.

The reason to see if leaking happens if water goes directly down the hole is to see if it is plumbing drain stuff leaking, or is it shower tray and drain stuff leaking above the pipes.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[ANGELA ANGOTTA]

Thank you for the reply. It only leaks when it backs up or starts draining slowly. Unfortunately, that's happening more and more often. I just tried. Spoon but it's not really moving. It chips off a little at a time if I use a flat head and hit it with a hammer. I can only get so far in, but I figure anything I get off helps.

Can you tell what the plastic thing coming out from the side is? I was going to get some pliers to pull it out or try to cut it, but I m not sure if it is supposed to be there and I need to leave it alone.

 

[Reach4]

I would consider getting a water softener to keep more hardness deposits from building up. That won't be a fast way to remove existing deposits, but should prevent new. Do you know how hard your water is? I suspect you have your own well.

So on the slow draining, I would bring in a drain cleaning specialist.


I don't know if the gray flap is part of the shower floor liner, or what. For finding fixing the leak, I don't know how to best do that.

 

[ANGELA ANGOTTA]

I have considered a water softener and should probably get that done. I am unsure of the hardness. My water is through the city, so no well.

I was worried I would have to have someone come out since it's going to be pretty expensive on top of all these other repairs, so thought I'd give it a shot myself first. Looks like I'm not getting very far with it, so I am going to have to have someone come clean it and maybe help find the leak.

Thank you very much for your help!

 

[Reach4]

I am unsure of the hardness. My water is through the city, so no well

The city may publish a report, or call the water department and ask. If they give a range, presume the worst.

so I am going to have to have someone come clean it and maybe help find the leak.

Good move. I would see if you can find somebody who does a lot of showers.

But cleaning the drain might be best done by somebody who specializes in drains. A local person will have worked with others who use that same water.

I am pretty surprised that somebody could build up that much in hard deposits in 3 years.

 

[Jadnashua]

Do you have any pictures of the shower being constructed?

When it leaks, does it leak when water literally fills the shower pan up and it goes over the top of the curb, or just generally leaks when there's any standing water? FWIW, the shower pan should not leak even if you plugged the drain and filled it to just below the top of the curb and left it. So, obviously, something's not right!

Those deposits could be from mastic. While there are mastic makers that allow the use of it in a shower, none that I've seen allow it to be used on the tile IN the pan. Neither the tile nor the grout are considered waterproofing...they're a decorative, wear surface. Moisture WILL get beneath the tile. If they used a mastic to install the tile, over time, it can literally dissolve it, and redeposit in your drain. Eventually, your tile won't be held down except for the grout holding it together if that's the case.

Note, 'thinset' is a method of installing tile, but many people equate that to a cement-based mortar...what can be confusing, is some mastic makers label things as thinset mortar when there's no cement in it at all. If you get it in a bucket, it's not a cement based product. It MIGHT work on a wall in a shower, but does NOT when used on a shower pan.

My go-to place for shower questions is www.johnbridge.com.

 

[ANGELA ANGOTTA]

Well, I've had this same problem since I moved in. It happened off and on for the past three years and only in my shower. All of the others seem fine.

I plan to reach out to get the water reports and already have someone coming out next week to give a quote for water softener install.

 

[ANGELA ANGOTTA]

Do you have any pictures of the shower being constructed?

When it leaks, does it leak when water literally fills the shower pan up and it goes over the top of the curb, or just generally leaks when there's any standing water? FWIW, the shower pan should not leak even if you plugged the drain and filled it to just below the top of the curb and left it. So, obviously, something's not right!

Those deposits could be from mastic. While there are mastic makers that allow the use of it in a shower, none that I've seen allow it to be used on the tile IN the pan. Neither the tile nor the grout are considered waterproofing...they're a decorative, wear surface. Moisture WILL get beneath the tile. If they used a mastic to install the tile, over time, it can literally dissolve it, and redeposit in your drain. Eventually, your tile won't be held down except for the grout holding it together if that's the case.

Note, 'thinset' is a method of installing tile, but many people equate that to a cement-based mortar...what can be confusing, is some mastic makers label things as thinset mortar when there's no cement in it at all. If you get it in a bucket, it's not a cement based product. It MIGHT work on a wall in a shower, but does NOT when used on a shower pan.

My go-to place for shower questions is www.johnbridge.com.

Unfortunately, I do not have any pictures. I was told I was not allowed to be on site unless I was at one of the scheduled walk throughs or it was considered trespassing.

I ave been having trouble with this shower from the start. I tried using stuff like drano but it never worked so I would jab at it with a wire hanger lol. Not the best idea but it helped. It always felt like I was instantly hitting the bottom of the pipe and I guess that stuff on the side is why.

I have never let the water go over he edge. When it starts filling up and gets about halfway, I hurry and get out so that it doesn't go over. We do not have the best water in this area, but I was really surprised hard water could do so much. I'm a little scared for what it's done to other parts of the house now.

Thank you! I will definitely take a look at that site

 

[Jadnashua]

Personally, I doubt that in the relatively short time you've been there, that that could be from hard water!

If you can crack or scrape some out, place it in a bowl of water. IF it's mastic, as I think, it will just get softer and if you mixed it, it might mostly dissolve, but there may be some aggregate (sand) left. Put some in a bowel with some vinegar...if it's mineral deposits, it will dissolve without any agitation over time (depending on how thick, maybe a day or more).

Regardless, if the shower is leaking, and it's not literally overflowing, it is very defective, and if you have any homeowner's warranty, they should fix it for free. Anything you do do to it, they could blame you for damaging it, and try to get out of any required fix.

When a shower is built, generally, the plumbing inspection will require the pan to pass a flood test...this is where they literally plug the drain and fill it up with water to verify it doesn't leak. Code says there can be NO penetrations to the liner (the waterproofing, however it is applied) within 2" from the top of the curb, so if it's leaking, and it's not overflowing, they did something very wrong! Unfortunately, the flood test, if it was done at all, occurs before they tile it, and there are lots of ways to damage the integrity of the shower between that time, and when it's finished.

There could be a drainage issue, and the shower is fine (but I doubt that!). Since it leaked, you may need to tear out and fix the ceiling below. Again, I wouldn't do that while you're dealing with the builder, but HE should, to get a better view of what and where it's leaking. Caulking a few joints is never the solution, either...the shower should be water tight prior to the application of the finishing materials. Yours is not. The tile just helps to direct the majority of the water to the drain, but it does not stop it from getting beneath...there, if things aren't right, it can go anywhere.

 

[ANGELA ANGOTTA]

Personally, I doubt that in the relatively short time you've been there, that that could be from hard water!

If you can crack or scrape some out, place it in a bowl of water. IF it's mastic, as I think, it will just get softer and if you mixed it, it might mostly dissolve, but there may be some aggregate (sand) left. Put some in a bowel with some vinegar...if it's mineral deposits, it will dissolve without any agitation over time (depending on how thick, maybe a day or more).

Regardless, if the shower is leaking, and it's not literally overflowing, it is very defective, and if you have any homeowner's warranty, they should fix it for free. Anything you do do to it, they could blame you for damaging it, and try to get out of any required fix.

When a shower is built, generally, the plumbing inspection will require the pan to pass a flood test...this is where they literally plug the drain and fill it up with water to verify it doesn't leak. Code says there can be NO penetrations to the liner (the waterproofing, however it is applied) within 2" from the top of the curb, so if it's leaking, and it's not overflowing, they did something very wrong! Unfortunately, the flood test, if it was done at all, occurs before they tile it, and there are lots of ways to damage the integrity of the shower between that time, and when it's finished.

There could be a drainage issue, and the shower is fine (but I doubt that!). Since it leaked, you may need to tear out and fix the ceiling below. Again, I wouldn't do that while you're dealing with the builder, but HE should, to get a better view of what and where it's leaking. Caulking a few joints is never the solution, either...the shower should be water tight prior to the application of the finishing materials. Yours is not. The tile just helps to direct the majority of the water to the drain, but it does not stop it from getting beneath...there, if things aren't right, it can go anywhere.

Okay, I have some that I've gotten out that I can try that with. The builder isn't very reliable. I was promised a ton of things would be fixed after I closed, but was then later told that an agreement through texts was not legal and should have been in my closing papers. I am actually in the middle or roof and garage ceiling repairs at the moment as well. They wouldn't do anything about the roof leaking even though it was due to bad pipe installation and lack of properly placed gutters. I was told I had one year on my warranty for that and the only thing left now is the structural warranty up to 10 years.

The warranty was not a great as they made it out to be and it really makes me regret not just buying an older house for less if I was going to have so many problems so early on.

I really do not want to have to tear it all out and get it all redone. It's just too much right now. The downstairs ceiling is already ruined with water damage and a huge hole, so it is definitely being replaced. I'm just hoping all of the wood and stuff is still okay and that maybe I could save a little money cleaning out the pipes myself lol

 

[Jadnashua]

Unless the drain line is actually leaking, which is possible, but not likely, it's the shower pan that is leaking.

I would document everything with pictures, and maybe post it on social media...along with any responses from the builder. I'd also talk to the local building inspector to review any permits and inspections that may have been done. An agreement via email might be construed as a contract in some places, too...

I can see a time limit on a defect, but faulty build...I'd want to carefully read the warranty, and maybe consult with a real estate lawyer. Any labor is expected to be done correctly, and that includes following building codes and the manufacturer's instructions for the products selected. Your building department may give you some ideas, but then again, some parts of AL aren't all that up and up with a lot of good old buddy crap going on. First, verify that permits and inspections were done, and by whom. I wouldn't take the word of the builder, who is trying to minimize any liability and costs to him. Haven't lived in AL for almost 50years...don't know the current state of affairs.

If you're going to tear out the ceiling beneath the shower, take good pictures of what you see, and have someone run some water to see where it is leaking. Keep a good log of the materials used and what was found. Keep in mind that water will run and come out the easiest path, so you may have to dig a little to actually find the source.

You need at least a consult with someone that is up on your local and state requirements related to your building, as that can differ based on where you are, and getting help via the internet, while well intentioned, may not be correct, or your best path for solution! In some cases, notice of a problem before you warranty expires that is not fixed within that timeframe, would still qualify as a claim within the warranty, and be required to be fixed, regardless of the time they eventually got around to it. Just because they ignore you until after does not relieve them of responsibility.

 

[ANGELA ANGOTTA]

Unless the drain line is actually leaking, which is possible, but not likely, it's the shower pan that is leaking.

I would document everything with pictures, and maybe post it on social media...along with any responses from the builder. I'd also talk to the local building inspector to review any permits and inspections that may have been done. An agreement via email might be construed as a contract in some places, too...

I can see a time limit on a defect, but faulty build...I'd want to carefully read the warranty, and maybe consult with a real estate lawyer. Any labor is expected to be done correctly, and that includes following building codes and the manufacturer's instructions for the products selected. Your building department may give you some ideas, but then again, some parts of AL aren't all that up and up with a lot of good old buddy crap going on. First, verify that permits and inspections were done, and by whom. I wouldn't take the word of the builder, who is trying to minimize any liability and costs to him. Haven't lived in AL for almost 50years...don't know the current state of affairs.

If you're going to tear out the ceiling beneath the shower, take good pictures of what you see, and have someone run some water to see where it is leaking. Keep a good log of the materials used and what was found. Keep in mind that water will run and come out the easiest path, so you may have to dig a little to actually find the source.

You need at least a consult with someone that is up on your local and state requirements related to your building, as that can differ based on where you are, and getting help via the internet, while well intentioned, may not be correct, or your best path for solution! In some cases, notice of a problem before you warranty expires that is not fixed within that timeframe, would still qualify as a claim within the warranty, and be required to be fixed, regardless of the time they eventually got around to it. Just because they ignore you until after does not relieve them of responsibility.

I will make sure to take good notes and pictures. It is actually really hard to tell the exact spot of the leak because it looks like it is right above where the air conditioner duct was placed. The water drips from that and seeps from the subflooring then drips onto the ceiling. I was hoping if I cleared the drain then I could get the ceiling fixed and move on. I have to stop trying to fix that area and get someone in to fix the leak so this will not all be for nothing.

I can see that I am going to have to look into the permits and inspections as you suggested. Perhaps even seek legal advice if it comes to it. We brought up the same point about it still being in the timeframe, but they said that they had denied our request to have it fixed under the reason "not covered under warranty." Yet, they were literally telling me it was covered and to file the claim online.

I really appreciate your help with all of this as I have felt a little lost and overwhelmed with everything. I will get with getting someone to go over state and local requirements and see if they have any advice on my current situation. Thank you, again!

 

[Jeff H Young]

Angela, since this happened immediately upon buying the house it seems it should have been fixed and wasn't so they should repair it .
Showers aren't supposed to leak regardless of having a stoppage, stoppages shouldn't be occurring either , what are you putting down drain?
Looks like you need to cut with a utility knife the membrane around the hole bigger. Run a snake down drain