Check Valve, or water tank?

[Gordgoroth]

Hey everyone.

I looked around but couldn't find what directly answers the question so I thought I'd post it.

So, my pump started short cycling this morning. On for a few seconds then off for a few seconds. Repeat.

I figured it was the pressure tank, and I was on the way to work, so I thought I'd just shut off the valve from the pump to the tank. When I did that, the cycling became much quicker. When I turned it back on, it went back to a slower cycling. So I shut the power off to the pump.

The pump is above ground, next to the tank in my basement. No leaks anywhere. Pump was installed about 7-8 years ago.

Is it the tank, or the check valve in the pump..is there even one in the pump as it's above ground? Almost everything I find about check valves is for submersed pumps. I have to believe there must be one, or, the valve doesn't do a complete shut off.

Thoughts? And thanks for all replies to a newbie on the page.

Gord!!

 

[Reach4]

There normally should be no valve between the pump and the tank. There are special cases, but those have to make sure the valve is not closed when the pump is on.

Turn off water between the tank and house if you can. Open the drain valve at the pressure tank. (for fun and knowledge you can look at the crud that comes out at the end).

At that point the pressure tank should be empty of water, and be light. Knocking on a steel tank should give a hollow sound.

Also, with the water pressure zero, what is the air precharge pressure on the Schrader valve a the top of the tank?

There is a way to get a little more temporary life out of your tank while you get the new one. But the odds of finding the problem is not a failed pressure tank are very low I think.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Gordgoroth]

There normally should be no valve between the pump and the tank. There are special cases, but those have to make sure the valve is not closed when the pump is on.

Turn off water between the tank and house if you can. Open the drain valve at the pressure tank. (for fun and knowledge you can look at the crud that comes out at the end).

At that point the pressure tank should be empty of water, and be light. Knocking on a steel tank should give a hollow sound.

Also, with the water pressure zero, what is the air precharge pressure on the Schrader valve a the top of the tank?

There is a way to get a little more temporary life out of your tank while you get the new one. But the odds of finding the problem is not a failed pressure tank are very low I think.

Thanks Reach, that's kinda what I was thinking the more the day went on. I'll try what you said in the morning and go from there.

 

[Gordgoroth]

Ok I went to turn the power on so we could at least wash hands and fill bottles. Tank wasn't filling at all but the gage on the pump said 40 psi. Think it just needs a prime?

 

[Reach4]

Bad gauge?

When you turn the pump on, does lots of water come out if you open the drain valve? You can put a garden hose thread pressure gauge on that drain valve for testing.

 

[Gordgoroth]

Bad gauge?

When you turn the pump on, does lots of water come out if you open the drain valve? You can put a garden hose thread pressure gauge on that drain valve for testing.

I didn't try the drain valve on the tank, just the taps and there was nothing and pressure didn't build, stayed right at 40, when it was 50 this morning. I shut it off after a few minutes as I didn't want to kill the pump

 

[Reach4]

Does the gauge go to zero when the water pressure is zero?

Cleaning the jet might help you build pressure. If the jet is clogged, you might only get around 20 psi. But a partially clogged jet could reduce pressure-building ability.

If you are legitimately pumping to 40 psi, I am pretty sure that the problem is not needing prime.

 

[Gordgoroth]

Does the gauge go to zero when the water pressure is zero?

Cleaning the jet might help you build pressure. If the jet is clogged, you might only get around 20 psi. But a partially clogged jet could reduce pressure-building ability.

If you are legitimately pumping to 40 psi, I am pretty sure that the problem is not needing prime.

The gage on the pump didn't budge, it was at 40 before I did anything when I got home and stayed there. I turned the valve going to the tank from the pump on and off and the pump stayed running the whole time.
Cleaning the jet? I'll see if I can find a video, not familiar with that one.
The valve had been off since this morning as well, if that makes a difference.. probably not tho.
Thanks again for the help. It's super appreciated.
I think I'll have to tackle it in the morning. I got prior engagements... and I have to pick up some water

 

[Gordgoroth]

Tried to get water from the tank with both the pump on and off and there's nothing either way.

 

[Reach4]

If you turn off power to the pump, what does the pressure gauge do -- stay at 40 psi?
If you then release water, what does the pressure gauge do? The answer should be to go to zero.


clean jet pump venturi
See
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/pressure-drops-quick.67304/page-2#post-500629

 

[Gordgoroth]

If you turn off power to the pump, what does the pressure gauge do -- stay at 40 psi?
If you then release water, what does the pressure gauge do? The answer should be to go to zero.


clean jet pump venturi
See
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/pressure-drops-quick.67304/page-2#post-500629

Yeah the gage on the pump is still at 40. It hasn't budged at all like it's stuck. Thanks for the link. I'll go make some popcorn and have a look

 

[Reach4]

One other possibility is that the path to the gauge, which may be shared by the pressure switch, is totally blocked. That would make both gauge and pressure switch non-responsive.

 

[Gordgoroth]

Ok so it looks like I am getting a new pressure tank. I'm sure the gage on the pump is bad too and the pump does need to be primed. When I turn the pump on and open the drain on the tank, there is nothing coming out, bladder is at 0 psi so I'm guessing a bad rupture.
Is it normal to need to prime the pump in this situation?

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Valveman]

I am sure all the cycling on and off over the years has destroyed the tank bladder. But that has nothing to do with getting water from the pump. The bad tank will make the pump cycle on and off rapidly, but you should still have water. Put on a new gauge and prime the pump to try again. A new tank is not going to fix the problem.

 

[Gordgoroth]

I tried to prime the pump and dumped several gallons of water down there and it didn't fill. I think I have a couple things going on, like bad tank and need new lines going to the well. Which is buried, with a sunroom built over top of it.
I'm trying to get someone to come look at it. I'm far from a pro and want a professional opinion.

 

[Reach4]

How about a photo of the pump, its pipe from the well, the input to the pressure tank, and the pressure switch.

When you prime, where do you insert the water?

 

[LLigetfa]

While the tank is likely bad, replacing it will not fix the root problem which is likely a failed foot valve. It is hard or next to impossible to prime the pump with a failed foot valve and since the well is buried and a sunroom built over it, changing the foot valve is also next to impossible. You might need a new well.

 

[Gordgoroth]

Hey everyone.
It's been a few weeks, wanted to say thanks to all that replied. I got it figured out. It is a couple of things, actually. The tank is almost done, but, the footer was bad. I had a professional come in and take a look. He measured the level to water, and the level to bottom of well. It was 16 and 65. We hooked up a single pipe to the pump with the adapter piece and dropped it in the well. After many many buckets of water, the level was holding @ 16 or so feet. So it's a shallow pump/well right now. Since it's not cold atm, we left it uncovered and in the late summer/early fall if there are no issues, will finish it off, cover up and all that good stuff.

He also suggested, if all goes ok, to maybe switch to shallow well tankless pump instead of changing the tank, and then in a few years have to replace the pump again..so it's just a pump at that point moving forward.

 

[LLigetfa]

He also suggested, if all goes ok, to maybe switch to shallow well tankless pump instead of changing the tank

Those are problematic and should be avoided. I'd suggest a PSIdeKick instead.

 

[Gordgoroth]

Those are problematic and should be avoided. I'd suggest a PSIdeKick instead.

Thanks. I'll check those out.