Air in pipes after non use, clears up after running awhile

[Jay B Soper]

Over night or after sitting awhile air gets in the lines and sometimes clears up after running awhile or sometimes loses prime. Pump struggles to reach shut off much of the time. When taking a shower the water after a few minutes the pressure drops off to nothing then after a short time comes back and then never does it again and you can run the water for along as you like. I have a 4 year old Goulds jetpump, pressure switch set 30 to 48 psi, I back off because it takes so long to reach 50psi. The well is a 27 foot driven point in sand, new 3 years ago with 7 feet of water. It is a 3 season home shut down and drained from mid December till April. I don't think it is a lack of water because once you get it going it keeps running. We've been trying to solve this problem for 3 years, any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[Reach4]

Slather all vacuum joints, including the connection to the pump, with shaving cream foam. Run the pump, and look for the foam getting sucked in as the pump runs.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jay B Soper]

Slather all vacuum joints, including the connection to the pump, with shaving cream foam. Run the pump, and look for the foam getting sucked in as the pump runs.

Thanks Reach4, I will try that tomorrow. There are about 8 joints I can get to above ground.

 

[LLigetfa]

There are about 8 joints I can get to above ground.

How many of those are before the check valve? To get air in the lines when the pump is not running, the leak would need to be between the well and the check valve.

I would expect the check valve to be the first or second joint connecting to the casing.

 

[Jay B Soper]

How many of those are before the check valve? To get air in the lines when the pump is not running, the leak would need to be between the well and the check valve.

I would expect the check valve to be the first or second joint connecting to the casing.

There is no casing, it is a point and sections of pipe driven into sand. It is an old location so the new point and pipe dropped in to the existing hole very easily. Ahead of the check valve is more like 5 joints including the incoming side of the check valve.

 

[LLigetfa]

There is no casing, it is a point and sections of pipe driven into sand.

Yes, I know how a driven well works.

 

[Valveman]

If you put it back in the same hole the well point may not be sealed at the top and is sucking air. When the shower pressure "drops off to nothing" is it just getting down to 30 PSI before the pump comes on?

 

[Jay B Soper]

I am not sure I understand what you mean about the well point being sealed? The pressure gets down 10 psi on the gauge when the water stops,, then it climbs back up. I have the range set at 26 to 46 currently. I also put the saving cream on the joints above the hole, not sure what I was supposed to see but nothing happened.

 

[Valveman]

If the earth does not seal around the sand point above the screen, it will suck air from the surface. The hole maybe "wallowed" out and the new sand point doesn't fit tight enough to seal.

 

[Jay B Soper]

Ok, that's very interesting, should I just fill the hole around the pipe with as much sand as I can? Even run some water back over it to help get in compacted? At the surface there is probably a 6 inch diameter hole that the pipe is in.

 

[Valveman]

Ok, that's very interesting, should I just fill the hole around the pipe with as much sand as I can? Even run some water back over it to help get in compacted? At the surface there is probably a 6 inch diameter hole that the pipe is in.

With a drilled well we would fill the annular space between the 6' hole and the 2" casing above the screen with cement or grout to seal the hole. I doubt you will be able to seal such a large annular space with dirt.

 

[Jay B Soper]

With a drilled well we would fill the annular space between the 6' hole and the 2" casing above the screen with cement or grout to seal the hole. I doubt you will be able to seal such a large annular space with dirt.

I am confused still, this is a point driven in sand and pipe is in 4 ft sections. It gets replaced every 10 years or so. I could make a wood form in the hole and put concrete on it for 4 to 6 inches. I attempted to add pictures of the pipe in the hole and the system.

 

[Valveman]

Maybe just need to drive it deeper. If the top of the screen is not under water it will draw air from above where the solid pipe is not sealed to the earth.

 

[Jay B Soper]

Maybe, last year the plumber drove it down 1 more foot so it is at 27 feet down with 7 feet of water, so of I go to 28 or more I guess the theory is that the water is 8 or more? I believe the point is 3 feet of screen. I guess it can't hurt to try some. I also read the Jet pump only works to 25 feet but I think that is the water level so that would be still 20 feet. Any other thoughts?

 

[LLigetfa]

Any other thoughts?

Depending on the ground formation, it may be possible to drive the screened point below the aquifer into non producing material.

 

[Jay B Soper]

I thought about this, if it is only getting air in the pipe after it sits and once it's running awhile it clears out and runs forever, I don't understand how going deeper helps? It is certainly the easiest thing to do.