Uponor colored PEX degradation -- two leaks so far

[hppsocal]

New construction, 3 years old. First leak happened 11 months ago in the kitchen. You can see in the photos that both sides of the elbow have a hairline break near the fitting. Second leak happened a few days ago very close to the first leak, but in a T.

Some plumbers who came to inspect the issue hypothesized that they were exposed to UV light. However, I recently came across the class action lawsuit against Uponor colored PEX pipes. Do these look like the typical Uponor PEX failures mentioned in the lawsuit? Should we repipe the home?

We are considering filing a claim with Uponor but the website asks to accept a waiver that the pipes may be destroyed during investigation. Not sure if this would be a problem if we have to pursue legal action down the line.

Thanks in advance for your insights!

 

[Jeff H Young]

Youve got 2 tell them to come out take all the pictures they want and take one. or even if they take both and you never have a problem again well then why would you need to sue ? and if you do have more problems youve got a entire house piped with all the evedence you could need

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Breplum]

If you haven't drilled into my stories posted here and elsewhere, I am a plumbing contractor who has multiple customers who have this exact problem.
Uponor is who to contact. We used the reps, but direct contact with Uponor is a good choice. They will reimburse you for past repairs and repipe your house if you are insistent.
One customer a few years ago got whole house repiped completely. Latest customer (as of March 2024) is only getting the underfloor crawl space repiped, by a contractor paid and supplied by Uponor directly. That customer has been told they won't repipe up the walls for now but the claim will remain on the books in case leaks start inside the walls later on. This home does have a dedicated hot water recirculation line on an aquastat.

 

[hppsocal]

If you haven't drilled into my stories posted here and elsewhere, I am a plumbing contractor who has multiple customers who have this exact problem.
Uponor is who to contact. We used the reps, but direct contact with Uponor is a good choice. They will reimburse you for past repairs and repipe your house if you are insistent.
One customer a few years ago got whole house repiped completely. Latest customer (as of March 2024) is only getting the underfloor crawl space repiped, by a contractor paid and supplied by Uponor directly. That customer has been told they won't repipe up the walls for now but the claim will remain on the books in case leaks start inside the walls later on. This home does have a dedicated hot water recirculation line on an aquastat.

Thank you @Breplum for your insights. This is really helpful!

Few follow-up questions if you don't mind:
1. What's the typical turnaround for Uponor to process the claim from contacting them to getting a resolution?
2. Have you ever had a customer do a repipe on their own and them Uponor reimbursed them later?

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

[hppsocal]

Got a really nice close-up of the recent pipe break waiting to be fixed. What's up with all these micro fractures near the fitting?

 

[Breplum]

that photo close up matches exactly the photos I have posted of damage.
As to your questions 1. Relatively timely...no major, just typical corporate slowness. I recall calling local Uponor rep, he met and picked up the failed sections and it took a week or so.
2. No, never had customer repipe then seek reimbursement. But, multiple repairs have been reimbursed. Most of the plumbers who came out early on didn't even know about the colored Pex Uponor issue until I told them.

 

[JohnCT]

Should we repipe the home?

Yes, one leak can be an aberration, but two leaks means your pipe isn't compatible with your home and and three years in service has aged by a factor of at least ten. Your closeup pic shows pipe starting to literally fall apart.

But here's where it gets ugly - if you want Uponor to pay for the repipe, then you have to put the same crap back in. I wouldn't be able to sleep knowing I might be getting a leak in my kitchen ceiling while I'm sleeping or out for the day.

Before anyone says the colored pipe was recalled - it wasn't - they still sell it and the white pipe has also shown the same propensity for short life as the red and blue. Since Uponor doesn't know what's causing the failures that do happen, there's no way of knowing if any currently produced Uponor is any better than your three year old (three years old!!!) pipe .

Since labor is the majority of the cost of any repipe, I'd try to work a deal with the installer and supply him with PEX (or let him provide material) from a different company and see if he'll install it if Uponor is paying the labor.

If not, and if it was me, I'd repipe with something else anyway, eat the cost, and would hope a class action lawsuit mitigates my loss someday. Even if that never happens, I won't be kept awake by that time bomb in my house.

We are considering filing a claim with Uponor but the website asks to accept a waiver that the pipes may be destroyed during investigation. Not sure if this would be a problem if we have to pursue legal action down the line.

Seems to me that's a weasel way of getting out of a warranty claim, although Uponor has paid for some full repipes (but have denied others). Call them and ask them exactly how much pipe they need to "destroy" to make their diagnosis, then supply that much pipe. Get everything in writing, and good luck.

John

 

[Jeff H Young]

I dont think wanting a sample is in any way being weasles and like I said if he has problems he has a whole house full of pipe to use as evedence ,

 

[hppsocal]

Finally extracted the bad pipe. The longer side of the T was leaking, the shorter side had something brewing about to burst soon. Uponor asks for 4-7 inches of pipe on each side but, unfortunately, the plumber was not able to take more of the shorter side because the pipe was very hard to access. Hopefully they don’t deny the claim on that basis.

 

[JohnCT]

Finally extracted the bad pipe. The longer side of the T was leaking, the shorter side had something brewing about to burst soon. Uponor asks for 4-7 inches of pipe on each side but, unfortunately, the plumber was not able to take more of the shorter side because the pipe was very hard to access. Hopefully they don’t deny the claim on that basis.

The reason they want a minimum of four inches is that connections made too close can leak and that four inch sample will guarantee that the expansions weren't too close and the cause of the failure.

In your case, it's clear the pipe is prematurely aged and has nothing to do with how close the expansions are, but as far as them denying the claim because the sample is too short..

John

 

[hppsocal]

The reason they want a minimum of four inches is that connections made too close can leak and that four inch sample will guarantee that the expansions weren't too close and the cause of the failure.

In your case, it's clear the pipe is prematurely aged and has nothing to do with how close the expansions are, but as far as them denying the claim because the sample is too short..

John

Thanks for explaining it, John. We shall see.

@Breplum you mentioned in another thread that the markings on the pipe identifying it as Uponor are important for the claim. The local rep sent a PDF which said they want the date code and the footage marker -- the PDF had an example pipe showing both date code and footage marker next to each other on the pipe. However, the extracted pipe does not have the footage marker after the date code. It says "potable cnsf ..." after the date code. I looked up some Uponor material online and it looks like the footage marker comes at the very end of the print stream identification. To get a photo of that I'd probably need to cut a few extra feet of drywall. Was the footage marker a deal breaker in your experience? Should I open up more drywall to get that info? Thanks in advance for your help!