Pam's Foreclosed Palace :)

[sparking5]

Hi!

Been doing other nonplumbing projects lately. (I just left a post in Wells section). I am enjoying "camping out" in this slum palace which I boughtfrom a bank--foreclosed). I moved in 2 weeks ago once I got the shallow well jet pump resolved. Running water is critical. I only have 1 exterior faucet, cold at kit sink, supply to remaining upstairs toilet & bathtub (circa 1937). I have not turned water heater on yet.

I am hoping the water is good enough to wash hands & dishes for now.

I am pail flushing the toilet cause I removed the tank to insulate it & gave it a good cleaning AND it had a rubber washer leak. Think it will work fine when I take the time to re-install it (bought new tank-to-bowl hardware & already installed a 1/4 tunr shutoff). Seems to flush fine w/ pail.

The lav sink does not drain at all, had leak on supply & loose drain piping....fixed leak & trap BUT I can not get a snake beyond about 18". I have tried 3 different ones plus some other creative things. Something stops me dead. This house was filthy but mysteroiusly this sink looked shiny clean? When I first ran water in it I found what looked like scouring powder residue in trap. I was wondering if the sink drain was saboutage by former owners cause they were losing the house?

It's a cheap basic wall hung, trap goes into wall at a Marvin to galvanized El down, then under bath floor to the tub & 1937 drum trap. :) Bath floor is solid wood oak. Then I thought I'd attack the tub drain & try to clean/snake all out for general purposes. Tub does drain some.

Well, I couldn't get the stopper/plug loose to remove. How's that detach? It's a flat metal disk that raises & lowers. There was 1 center screw that I removed but don't see what the does. I tried gently prying and unscrewing. Can't get ot up enough to see. Had same in mstr bath I totally gutted but I used a sawzall on that one & I don't remember how it was assembled. (I should of studied it after I got it free). I removed the overflow cover & it's pipe to expose some of the drain piping & gainmore swing room for wrenches.

If I remember right I can get a small snake to the drum trap from tub side. There is a nice access door on top of stairs to this. But of course the drum trap is tough to reach. Someone in past has slightly mangled the square knob. I tried several ways to remove cover but Istopped cause I was also slightly reshaping the square.

I bet pictures would help.

That was over a week ago & I haven't done anthing else yet. Oh, I did run a snake in can down 1 of the 2 vent stacks from roof. This one went to the gutted bath. I damn near lost the whole brand new snake down stack cause the end was not attached to the can. Is that normal? Somehow I caught it.:) I didn't know I was at the end already. About 25'.

Any suggestions? I'll take some pictures to add to this thread.

I expect some venting & septis tank/dain field issues too. This house has not been maintained well for 50 years.

Thank you for any help & humor!
Bye

Photos:

1. Lav Drain
2. 1937 tub interior
3. View of tub dwv guts
4. THE Drum Trap!

[brownizs]

I like the last picture. Reminds me why we had to had to re do the drain line to our tub, due to that particular trap starts leaking after 60+ years. Bad side also, is you cannot snake the older style traps, but the lead is good for weighting decoys for hunting, along with fishing weights.

[master plumber mark]

you got yourself into it....didnt you..?? yep..

I hope it was a great deal for ya.



snake the drain on the lavatory and simply
put a new trap on it --if you cant snake it , hire it done...


instal a new tub drain on the tub..... Dont fool around with
the DRUM TRAP its going to give you years of trouble
so just get rid of it all together....

if you have a sawzall and steel cutting bi-metal blades,

I suggest you just get nasty and cut that god awful drum trap

completely out of there and then clean out the line....

then re build the whole thing from the cut off pipe witha no-hub clamp and then a pvc trap and drain....

its all pretty easy and a delightful experience if
you have not done it before..

especially if you dont dry out that drum trap first......


that would cost you about 400 to 600 here to do it all

[Mikey]

...a D9 Cat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caterpillar_D9).

[sparking5]

Thanks for the advice, info & humor. I especially like recycling the drum trap for hunting weights. I think i'll probably sell it to the local scrap yard for $90 a ton. :)

I may not of posted the photo that shows how nicely the tub access door is trimmed out.

I did get a good price on this house. But the main reason I bought it is it's right next door to my 82 yr old Mom,a new widow. I can now keep an eye on her easily & it's handy.

Looks like I will be pulling up the 1937 oak floor in bath and/or making an opening in the kitchen ceiling directly below. Good thing I planned on resurfacing the kit ceiling w/ beadboard.

When I saw that drum trap I figured it would have to be removed eventually.

Good thing I got a sawzall, metal blade, friendly local plumbing supply house, good collection of cuss words, patience & an electrician bro-in-law who used to be a plumber. I'll probably call him in for a consultation. Especially since he was chanting in my ear last year to buy this house....Huh! LOL! Damn Robert!

I'd like to save this original bathtub, not sure why. Just seems to be the thing to do...Like buying this house.

I'll surely be back for some more info.

Wish me luck.
Bye

[Cass]

That would be a good way to start from scratch.

[sparking5]

Mikey,

I clicked on your link. That's what I thought a D9 Cat was. I was thinking that a couple days after I got insurance on this palace, full replacement, that maybe an electrical fire might be a good thing! As an electrician, I know that could of easily happened all by itself.

Naw, I gotta give this old house all the lovin' it needs and deserves. It has not beenwell maintained since the 60's so I got a nice little project here. At least the work site is handy. I just fall out of bed and go to work. :D

Bye

[hj]

The drum trap is cast iron not lead, so you cannot melt it down for anything. The good news is that the drum trap is cast iron, because if it were lead it would have a fine thread cover and be impossible to work with. The cover is a brittle pot metal and will break/peel off very easily using a hammer and screwdriver or thin chisel. Then you can put your snake into the outlet and clean it, although your snake will probably not do a very good job of it. Then screw a new cover with a paper gasket, available at most hardware stores, and tighten it. Snakes are very seldom secured in the drum because there is no way to get in there to do it.

[Mikey]

Sparkie-

My house is only 33 years old, and we're in the final year (I hope) of a remodel that started out as a one-room repaint 3 years ago. There are two architects on our street, and both suggested the 'dozer approach, but I fell into the remodel trap. We'll spend around $50K, I'd guess, by the time we're done (close to $5K on tools -- I never met a tool I didn't like), whereas a teardown/rebuild would be around $400K. OTOH, the rebuild would be (IMHO) spectacular, and exactly what I want, whereas the remodel will be nice, but we're still trapped in the original shell. Bottom line, of course, was the bottom line -- I estimate that professionally done we'd have spent around $150K, and we couldn't have lived in the place while it was being done. Also, there'd be other adverse financial consequences I don't want to go into here. And, of course, we wouldn't have had all this fun.

Having done all this, however, the idea of the disastrous event has entered my mind. It surely won't be an electrical fire, since I've done all of the new work (but some of that old work does look kind of shaky, now that I think of it). I think it'll be Hurricane Michael that does the job.

I wish you well.

[sparking5]

Glad the drum trap is cast iron cause I can get $120/ton vs $90 for steel. :)

This house does have good bones & large enough. Has alot of character & charm, if you don't "look under the hood". Quite a few construction-type men have seen it and say it has alot of potential. Fortunately, I can do nearly all the work myself.

I have built a new house, actually a duplex w/ my Dad & sister. I know the blood, sweat & tears of a new build. Sweat Equity Rules! Tho, somewhat different than remodel.

I think I have now seen all the dirty secrets of this house and can get 'em resolved w/ enough time and effort and...............you guys! :D

Thanks for the support.

Guess I'll go install the rebuilt toilet tank now so I canhave a modern fancy-smancy toilet that FLUSHES.

I'll get at the drum trap in the near future. Glad it drains some now but I hear ya that it needs to be removed soon.

(The toilet seat is new)

Bye

Bye

[plumber1]

If that plug on the trap isn't pot metal, it will be brass and it's soft and you can drill and chip away at it till it comes out.

Like HJ says, clean the drain from there and put a new plug on the trap. Put it back together or better yet replace the whole waste and overflow.

[sparking5]

Pot Metal....is that like Diecast? Speaking of lead, I found a coffee can of loose lead dust (think for pouring lead..my Dad was a master electrician and used it on the job. He was great at it. Whenever the area utility company needed a pored lead electrical pipe connection they called for my Dad) and some 1/4" sheets of lead, about 1' X 3'.

How do I dispose of it or use it? I know it is hazardous. Maybe the local plumbing union apprenticeship school would like it. I saw a demonstration of pouring lead there.

Bye

[master plumber mark]

you are scareing me with those pics.......

having flashbacks to nightmare houses I have tangled with


wether you cut it or clean it out, its all fun.

[sparking5]

Good News!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My toilet is operational now. It flushes and everything!!!!!

See......................... :D

The sign "Pam's Palace" was made by my daughter in 5th grade.

Bye

[sparking5]

In the photo above...What else do I need? A flushing toilet, toilet paper, "Pam's Palace" plaque & a basic plumbing book w/ lots of pictures. I should of put my laptop in the photo too.

Yah...I guess a draining lav would be useful, a new finish on the tub would look nice, heated water is a nice comfort and maybe rebuild that mstr bath I totally gutted downstairs.

There is a nice view from this toileton 2nd floor and there is a walk out flat roof right next to it.

P.S. Hearing a Master Plumbing being alarmed at this house does cause me some concern. Now you are starting to scare me. :)

Bye

[Mikey]

You da woman! Looks like you even might've painted behind the tank? Add a magazine rack and it's very homey. Enlarge the window, and you go from mundane to House Purty. Did you even trim the scuttle hole or is that a different one?

[toolaholic]

from the few pix ,I have a good KARMA feeling ,about your home!

That place needs you and ,and You needed it.

best luck to you and Mom Tool

[sparking5]

Thanks Mikey & Toolaholic!

I do sortof feel it's got Karma and almost like it is glad I am here to fix this old girl up....Get her back to her original, well built roots.

The access door/scuttle: That's the original trim from 1937. It may of been hard to tell but that bath has original oak flooring too. The whole house does. I'm looking forward to refinishing them later.

Bye

[brownizs]

HJ, you are correct, in that Pam's is metal. The one we pulled out of our bathtub was a lead Drum trap, not Cast.

[sparking5]

Hi!

...Many photos below....

I have been gone from this site for awhile to work on several other projects. One is my former house that I just finished remoceling to get listed for sale.

Now, I can focus work on this foreclosed palace that I have been "living" in for 8 mths w/ very limited amenitites. I have been camping out here more like a squatter than living. Maybe hillbilly is a fancy word for it???? You do what ya gotta do and it helps that I am single and low maintenance, especially for a woman. Ha!

I just got my pump running again last night so I again have a flushing toilet. (In next year or two I will have a deep well installed...first things first).

I posted in this thread instead of a new one because it has the history of this 2nd floor bath I am starting to work on. My dau is coming home for christmas from LA, CA and she said she is depressed when she thinks about my current "home" for her to visit and lack of facilities. She will be sleeping/showering, etc at my Mom's right next door....chicken! Ha! I got a flushing toilet for her and now working on a bath sink for handwashing....her christmas gifts. LOL!

I gained access to all 2nd floor bath supply & DWV via kitchen ceiling. (I wanted to recover kit ceiling w/ beadboard anyway). I am thinking, as a rule, if one ever gains easy access to galvanized, then they should replace w/ plastic or copper, right?

I could only get a snake about 18" down hand sink wall vertical pipe and I think I know why. The pipe was packed full at the bottom 90 so I did cut that out last night as first step to demo'ing this galvanized. I slapped some duct tape on end to stop the slow dripping. But, this ties into soil and I don't if when I flush if it could spray out there. (Hard to describe...I cut the vetical portion of sink drain out).

I am semi-skilled, rusty plumber so looking for tips here. Maybe good idea to quickly draw out what is here. Trot to local plumbing shop for parts and replace w/ plastic (I don't like to sweat, not skilled enough).

I am hoping to not tangle w/ the cast iron stacks...soil & vent?????????

Not sure what my specific questions are yet or if there is a logical place to start first. I might, FIRST, replace all dwv from sink & tub to tiein to 5-6" cast iron at toilet. This would remove that admired drum trap.

I was going to try to restore the tubfaucet but I sortof chewed it up a bit not knowing exactly how to remove this 70+ years corroded thing the correct way. Maybe I should just get a new similiar one from my local plumb shop. (I do not buy fixtures/plump parts from big box store case I think some of there items are lesser quallity, intended by manu.).

Once again, long post.....I and LA dau thank you for any advice/info/tips you can offer to speed this project along. I guess dau is used to fancier stuff living in LA.


SInk...will close w/ vanity or beadboard wainscot....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/P1010001.jpg

View thru trimmed out access panel to tub.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/P1010002.jpg

Same, can see kitchen below.....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/P1010003.jpg

Kitchen ceiling...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/P1010004.jpg

[sparking5]

More Photos...sorry if huge... Picture says a 1000 words.

Like my light fixture? The shiny, damp looking portions I sprayed w/ Break Away but I may just use a sawzall.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/P1010008.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/P1010007.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/P1010006.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/P1010005.jpg

[master plumber mark]

Its all work, and work does not bother me


but your pictures are takeing
my breath away.....

you should lay a strong foundation here before you
start to really pretty things up


sometimes it is just best to start all over
when it comes to all that galvinized
water pipeing....

especially when it comes to pipes that could
spring a pin hole leak at any time in a finished ceiling.....



Respectfully, I suggest that you

start from the basement and re-run those waterlines
if you plan on saying in this "palace" for any
length of time.....or suffer the consequences.




I really like that "duct tape repair" on the end of that drain line.
..in the last pic......

they really should have used elecrtical tape, it would

have looked much, much , more professional....anthough tests

are not conclusive yet as to wether duct tape has a longer life

than electrical tape.......

perhaps the duct tape is now the better choice of

professionals.......

I suppose that Duct Tape covers a much
wider radius than good old electrical tape

how things change and improve over time....LOL




also would you explain how you uploaded all these pics....

i cant get anything to upload to this site too complicated for me.

[Mikey]

Even as just a DIYer, I couldn't agree more with MPMark. There come times when it's a whole lot easier in the long run to rip out the old and start fresh from the bottom up, and I think now is one of those times. On the bright side, the hardest part is drilling all the holes, and that's already done :D .

Good luck...

[master plumber mark]

actually she could save herself tons of time

and simply leave all that crap inside the walls....

just run some new 1/2 wirsbo pex to all the fixtures

separately down to the basement and tie it all

in down there...

and would not have to drill anything....

now the driain line is another issue....

[sparking5]

Thank you gentleman for your replies!

Er,..I slapped that duct tape on last night after I cut out the first of many sections to come. I have a photo that I'll add that shows why I couldn't get a snake down that lav sink. The duct tape is very temporarily...it was dripping.

This palace is still a construction site. Most of the pipes have been or are still dry. I just got the pump running after many months. I totally demo'd a mstr bath so those pipes are just capped off.

Ok, so w/ all this galvanized pipe, I am planning on demo'ing and replace w/ plastic pvc/cpvc. The basement is copper, probably replaced galvanized many years before since it was accessible. Now i'll do in the wall/floor stuff as current owner. I am hoping the cast iron soil/vent runs (the big ones) are ok to leave. They look heavy. :eek:

Foundation?? Do you mean beef up the wood structure? Sister on some 2X lumber? There is a 1/4" piece of flat iron that was sistered onto the severly cutout joist under tub for that damn drum trap when house was built. Maybe doesn't show in my photos.

Or by foundation, do you mean start over w/ all piping? Again, I think what you see is the bulk of the galvanized piping still left in this house. The master bath I am re-running cuz I wanna run it surface mount on the wall/ceiling. (Not PVC, but some attractive pipe for exposed work. Might have to concur sweating for that). Why? Cause the dirt & unheated crawlspace that it is currently running thru is creepy and very inaccessible. I'll leave the mstr bath soil & vent alone, on far outside wall. (Maybe I can make that accessible from the outside, on back of house. Anyway, that is another battle for another day).

How I load photos....several ways. I am not an expert. Today, I uploaded photos to photobucket.com (free). They automatically gie the uploaded photos different types of links for different uses. One is suggested to post on message boards, another for emails, etc.

I copy link and paste into this post, like below. When I post, first it is words & #'s but after post is posted, then it becomes a visual photo. Or, another option is to just post a different style link and then people click on it and then they see photo.

Sorry if that was confusing but I can't remember some of the exact terms. I'll do it now for the unsnakeable drain pipe and it will refresh my memory.

http://photobucket.com

First photo labeled as "Tag", suggested for auction sites & websites (clickable link):

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/P1010002-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a> (http://<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/P1010002-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>)
.................................................. ...
2nd photo was labeled as "IMG", bb code for message boards:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/P1010001-1.jpg


Then, Preview Post to see if it worked. Good thing I just did cause I screwed up one of them. You can also get a smaller image at this site, called a thumbnail. The webmasters might prefer this one cause it is smaller. A new feature at photobucket.com.

Thumbnail below:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/th_P1010001-1.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/P1010001-1.jpg)

Hey thanks...explaining the photo stuffed helped me get more familar w/ photobucket and there FREE features. I like it even more.

[sparking5]

In case you didn't click on that clickable link above. Hey, why couldn't I get a snake thru it? :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/P1010002-1.jpg

[sparking5]

Finished w/ Rough 2nd Floor Bath...

I used CPVC/PVC cause I don't trust my sweating, among other reasons and comfortable w/ solvent welding. I just read alot of opinions about cpvc vs copper vs pex. Ford vs Chevy as someone said. Well, I am Ford right now). :D Maybe I'll try PEX in future cause I currently have a totally demo'd mstr bath to do.

I still need to add some supports. I turned on water yesterday and all dry. Glad I didn't miss a fitting somewhere w/ glue. I used a new glue, CPVC-1, bright yellow snot looking stuff. I was hesitant cause no primer needed but my local supply house recommended it. The color grew on me.

That gal steel crap was a drag to demo....tight to wood, 80 yrs in place, corroded. I ran mostly 3/4" and no water hammer/arrestor things. (I had read may not be needed and potential health hazard?). I have well water and don't remember if area tested acid or alkaline side. It is rusty and hard w/ iron. Is that aggressive?

I do have a small leak but not mine! This foreclosed palace was empty and no heat for a winter so maybe that is why the cheap lav faucet is leaking w/in the body. I'll be replacing it soon but was hoping to use it for awhile. Think it is repairable for short term? Cause I first have to decide on vanity, sink, etc. This bath is small so I am looking for a "diminutive" sink & vanity...meaning, friggin tiny. Like 12" deep vanity, small sink (maybe bar) w/ a corner mounted faucet???

Hope I did alright. I haven't ran plumbing pipe for some years and didn't fully brush up on the subject.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/P1010076.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/sparking/Cape%20Cod%202nd%20Bath%20galvanized%20pipes/P1010075.jpg

[Randyj]

I've been following along from time to time.... one thing I can really appreciate about the pictures... reminds me alot of the remodels I did on my mom's rental properties (slum lord! upgraded to landlord!)... it really reminds me of the work that used to be involved in plumbing a house. I'd cry if I had to do a whole house in galvanized and cast iron. I barely will take on a job with copper! We must really appreciate our plastics manufacturers.... Looks like a fairly professional job... good work!