The worst toilet I have ever installed

[master plumber mark]

Today I went to a customers house to finish a rush job

he supplied the toilet and if I knew how crummey it was
I would have never had taken it out of the box...

The ----AMERICAN STANDARD CHAMPION ----
is probably the worst
toilet I have ever installed.....

((the only thing I think is about as crummey is the Kohler))

the bowl was off level at least 1/2 inch

then it came with a special wrench to tighten down the tank

and it took more tension to tighten the bolts down enough to
keep it from leaking...


When you tried to flush the toilet it also seemed not to
catch right...or you had to flush it twice...


it had a very crummey flush assembly that will probably
be wearing out in 2 years or less??.


I installed it , and told the fellow that I wouldent wish that

piece of junk on anybody..

[Dunbar Plumbing]

I always ask the customer on the phone what brand/model of toilet they want me to install; most have already bought before calling. I like most of the A/S models.....just not the one you mentioned and have never installed one. I turned down 4 this year; told them I will not install that model, along with those "Toilet to Go" box kits for $80. Pointless and I try to avoid installing callback toilets whenever possible. I've actually had a couple customers return toilets and buy either Toto or other BB brand sold upon trusting me as a referral. I've installed A/S Circa 1922....saweet! Talk about sitting on a throne....deaaaaaam! :D

[master plumber mark]

you are ablsolutley right about how to handle
hardware store junk......


Well, this one slid by me.....
being an American Standard, I expected a better product

usually I dont install anything but Delta faucets

and I warn them about toilets too.....but not this time


It aint my problem anymore...and I let them know that
they were on their own before I installed it.....


just trying to live the plumbing dream as
smoothely as I can..

[Mikey]

I recently bought an A/S Champion at Homer's, but happened across this site and the Champion user experience thread before opening the boxes. User opinions seem to go about 99 to 1 supporting your contention that the Champion is a real POS toilet. However, Consumer Reports and even Terry's crtoilet page say it's a great toilet. I chickened out, and set out to find a Toto Drake, which Terry seems to like. Nobody carries it locally, but they said I could order it -- didn't seem too excited about it, and the price wasn't right. So I ordered one off the Web, free shipping, no tax, right price. I'll know in a week or so if I did the right thing, but why is there such a discrepancy between the vast majority of Champion buyers and CU and Terry's and several other Web sites that recommend them?

[Cal]

It's too bad,,, Amer Stand. has done SOOOOOOOO BAD with pretty much ANY of their 1.6gal toilets . It's ALL that was ever used in our fine Nation's capital and suburbs 50's , 60's ,etc....Mighty fine toilet then. Now,,,they SUCK !

VItra , Toto , certain Kohlers , even Eljer , Gerber ,,,,all before Amer.Stand.

[jdkimes]

Read the full MAP (http://www.cwwa.ca/pdf_files/MaP%205th%20Edition%20Sept%2015,%2005.pdf) toilet study on Terry's homepage (not just his quick review of them), you'll see how they did the tests. Consumer Reports flushed sponges to simulate fecal matter, MAP used soybean paste, so unless you excrete sponges I'd think soybean paste is more realistic. All around the MAP study was better. They really just tested the flushing so things like quality of finish were not a big issue.

My wife is sick of me telling people at parties etc to read a toilet study but it's really a cool study.
By the way I bought the Drake, ordered via internet(the packaging is incredible-the UPS guy was kicking it off the truck before I told him- "hey that's a toilet in there take it easy" , works great, except this annoying tank movement :)

A/S champion popularity is a matter of marketing, that golf ball flushing is advertising genius!! it's gold!! Who wouldn't think that if it can flush 20 golf balls it can flush whatever you put in it?!

[Terry]

Even the worst toilets will flush golf balls.

They love saying that. Will flush golf balls.

The old Mansfield Alto used to flush em down too.
Problem was that the casting at the bottom caught everthing else.

As long as you were flushing round things, it worked. You could hear them pinging down the trapway and rolling and bouncing out.

If you tried paper, you were SOL

[master plumber mark]

the toilet I was speaking about
probably could take down a tennis ball
for all I know... and anyone that could
actually drop someting that big, I dont care
to ever meet.

the problem with the Am St unit I noticed was the
internal mechanism and its cheap shoddy design...

if it lasted a year without the light plastic plunger and
weak parts inside breaking
or wearing out I would be surpirsed....


also the bolts holding down the toilet to the
tank I defy anyone on this earth to install this without
a few choice cusss words...

and I doubt the bolts will actually hold water after all the
trouble of getting them to tighten down correctly.




this was all mentioned to the owner,

[bennybaby]

I think Home Depot is really pushing the Champion. I just bought another brand toilet, but liked the looks of that Champion model, went with the Kohler instead, thank goodness. If you go into the Home depot stores you'll see a display for the Champion full of golf balls going down. There is only one problem with that..they would never get through my perpetually root-clogged main.

[Don]

I heard all the horror stories about the Champion..I bought one of the later improved models with the new flush valve seal..the tank/bowl connection went fine (a long careful tightening process)..no external leak there..but guess what?..sometimes the flush valve does'nt always seal after a flush..that thin flat seal can land (folded)..causing a down the pipe trickle and a constant cycle of shhhhhhh..refilling..say I told you so...thank you...I wonder if AS is going to offer another new seal design?..They're right..I never have to jiggle the handle..but I do have to take off the tank lid and straighten out that thin rubber seal !!!!!!!!....Don

[Andrea in PA]

Mickey -
Did you receive the toilet yet? Did it arrive okay? What website did you order it from? Did you install it and how is it working? I'm thinking of ordering one from the web and my husband doesn't think it is a good idea.
Thanks,
Andrea



set out to find a Toto Drake, which Terry seems to like. Nobody carries it locally, but they said I could order it -- didn't seem too excited about it, and the price wasn't right. So I ordered one off the Web, free shipping, no tax, right price. I'll know in a week or so if I did the right thing

[Andrea in PA]

I knew I had read that someone ordered a Toto off the internet and that it had arrived safely. It sounds like you were happy with the place you ordered from. Did you have any problems? What website did you order it from?
Thanks,
Andrea


By the way I bought the Drake, ordered via internet(the packaging is incredible-the UPS guy was kicking it off the truck before I told him- "hey that's a toilet in there take it easy" , works great, except this annoying tank movement

[jadnashua]

I've ordered several Totos over the internet. The first one they used UPS and it was broken - they didn't even try to deliver it and a second was sent successfully. The last one I bought, they used a different carrier (freight) rather than UPS. It was delivered strapped onto a pallet - looked like it just came out of the factory.

[Terry]

UPS always breaks toilets.

Toilets strapped to a pallet look nice when they're not broken.
I've seen them come in pieces that way too though.
Sometimes you don't find the internal cracks for a few months.

Trusting something like a toilet to a truck driver is a bit of an iffy thing.

[finnegan]

I just installed an AS Champion one piece. No problems at all. Flushed fine on that day. I am not sure how the warranty works, but supposedly there is a 10 year warranty on all parts.

[homerunsally]

I just purchased an American Standard Aqualyn from Home Depot.My flange is below the subfloor so I used 2 wax seals.When I flushed I got 1 huge air bubble and a series of small ones.I phoned a plumber and he said I used too much wax.I took the toilet off,cleaned it all up,added a lift,and installed it again.I still get the big airbubble and I can't figure it out!Because of the airbubble it doesn't flush very well,quite sluggish actually.Can anyone tell me what my problem is?

[Terry]

finnegan,
Remember to send in the warrany card.

Champion® Flushing System Ten-Year Worry-Free™ Warranty
"For this warranty to become effective, the warranty registration card and proof of purchase must be completed and returned to the address on the warranty registration card within 30 days of purchase."


You may need it.

[homerunsally]

I found another handyman web where a fellow had the same trouble as me.American Standard apparently told him that that particular style toilet is suppose to have a huge airbubble.Other plumbers said they never heard of such a thing.That model was a Marina.I have since returned it to Home Depot and bought a Plebe.It installed as easy as grandma's apple pie and the flush is as beautiful as a flush can be.