Uphill Sewage connection - 300 ft and 70 vertical feet - Need advice

60 yr old house on a hill slope has a septic tank with a failed leach field (plumbed with orangeburg ). There is no room to dig another leach field and I can't get city permission to rebuild it, even if I did there are half a dozen large trees within 20-30 feet of it. So I've finally admitted I need to make a connection to sewage.

The nearest sewage connection I can make is a 300 foot run from the inlet of the septic tank and 70 vertical feet above the tank. I believe the connection is to an unpressurized line. 20 GPM should be sufficient to handle the 3 bedroom/ 2 bath house.

Due to the line length and volume I'm concerned a 24" dia basin will have too small a pump cycle volume should the check valve get fouled so I'm leaning toward a 36" dia basin. Something like the Liberty D3672 Duplex package. I haven't really found anything bad about Liberty pumps so I assume they are pretty decent. The flow rate with the 2 stage liberty pump should be about 30 GPM.
http://www.libertypumps.com/Products/Category/SubCategory/Product/?p=42&s=13&c=19

Although I think I need the large tank size, I'm not sure if I really need a duplex system or if a simplex system would be sufficient. Is the duplex system worth it? Are there any issues with fiberglass tanks for longevity that would steer me in a different direction?

Using 1.5" PVC the total head including dynamic head should be about 90-95 feet, with 2" line I should get more like 76 feet of head. Although the head is higher on the 1.5" line it seems preferable because it would ensure minimum flow velocities in the pipe and also reduce the total pipe volume that can drain back into the basin to 27 gallons (2" pipe would be about 50 gallons). Or would I be better off with 2" pipe because it would be easier to clean out if necessary? Because of the high head I'm assuming I'll need the two stage pumps. The flow rate should be around 30gpm with those pumps which I think is sufficient to meet minimum flow velocities in 2" pipe should I use it.

Should I put in normally closed gate valves that bypass the check valves so I can drain the line back into the tank if necessary for maintenance? Do I need more than 1 check valve? How many cleanouts along the way do I need to put in? I don't know yet if I will be allowed to use PVC for this or not yet (it's early days), or is there something better? steel? Should I use unions on the check valves so they can be serviced more easily?

The septic tank is in the front yard only about 6 ft from the house and open windows, and 10 ft from the front door. It was unvented, I'm assuming it vented back through the inlet line to one of the vent stacks on the house. Would that be sufficient venting for the basin or do I need to put in a vent on the basin. If I do have to vent the basin can I pipe it somewhere more remote from the front of the house? It seems easiest to put the pump basin where the septic tank is now because that's where the sewage pipe exits the house.

Another issue is that the 300 foot run to the sewer connection needs to go under a driveway on which vehicles are parked. Is this an issue with PVC pipe? If so can I run the PVC pipe inside a 3" steel pipe under the driveway? I will also need to run the electrical power for the pump under the driveway alongside the outflow pipe, any issues with that or special considerations? The outflow pipe will also cross over the incoming fresh water pipe to the house. Any issues with that?

I intend to do most of the trenching myself since it should be shallow enough not to need shoring. I'll assist a friend who is an electrician to do the electrical work. This whole project will be very expensive for me so I want to minimize costs where I can by doing as much of the work myself, but I also want to end up with a very reliable system I never have to mess with again(except for the rare pump or electrical work). I don't want to have to mess with the plumbing and basin again, but if I do I want to make it as easy as possible to clean them out and inspect/work on them. I'm certainly willing to hire a plumber to do the work that requires his expertise, but I'd like to know as much as possible going in so I can be sure things are being done right.

I know this is a lot but please point out anything I may have gotten wrong, suggestions of things I've forgotten, recommendations on materials, recommendations on what I should not attempt myself but hire experts for, etc. Anything to help reliability and easy of maintenance.

Thank you very much in advance.

Barrett

First I would check the cost of the engineer to stamp a set of plans showing how to rebuild the old system. Second if you have not been red tagged, and the neighbors are not right in your face, I would expand or deepen the old trenches and do gravel and pipe, pvc, without the inanity of the county rules.

No one cares about trees here, there is no setback at all, they are often encouraged by the sanitarian as a means to use the effluent. Most types will not close up the system, and you can add clean outs if you are worried. Trees are giant straws that suck your system dry and put water back in the air - not into some factory that charges you by the gallon to clean it.

You do not need a plastic pump chamber. I use the second chamber of my septic tanks with a orenco or other filter basin, then set the pump in that. You can even pump from that with a standard submersible pump of 1/2 HP and have a drawdown of hundreds of gallons. No more vents needed.

Unless you beat the system, and repair what worked for decades, you will NOT have a system you dont have to fool with. Pumping effluent is always a big maintenance burden. Last choice especially with your pipe install problems.

Septic tank- chamber 2 with screen insert- Effluent pump - check valve - shutoff valve- pipe to the sewer. Thats all you need.

I would first fix it quietly and correctly with the help of a good septic guy, screw the county. Not up for that? get a good engineer and a county private 'shmoozer' that has some of the officials in his pocket and can finess the stupid system, and make them grandfather in the old system with a modern upgrade. Unless an ordinance has passed precluding septics, eventually they will have to let you fix it - you have to get past their lies and sideshifting. You can appeal decisions by the health dept.

If you add sewer hookup fees and future sewer costs, you can hire some good help and still come out ahead.

Still want to pump up to the county money grabber? You definitely dont need a duplex system if you stay in chamber 2 of the existing tank, because when it stops pumping due to age or power out, you simply go back automatically into the old and now dry leach field! cheap and auto back up. no plastic basin, just hookup a high water alarm of a simple 30$ float switch. Submersible pump will cost 400$ or less vs. thousands for a so called sewage pump. You will still have to pump your septic tank at intervals to keep that idea working.

1" pvc will be adequate with a high head submersible "well pump" with your parameters, without even looking at the book.

Here, if there is ANY sewage system available you CANNOT do anything to restore a septic system. I would NEVER use anything except a duplex system, with all the bells and whistles, for any ejector installation which services the entire house. I would also use a 48" pit to give greater capacity, and room to work on the pumps. My supply house stopped selling Libery pumps because there were too many warranty issues with them.

I have to lean toward (hj) in his answer. The areas I'm familiar with REQUIRE you to hook up to the municipal sewer within a certain period of time, they also require the old septic tank to be removed or filled, there's usually a fine for failure to comply.

Use a Grinder Pump System

HJ is absolutley, correct !

Don't mess around, use a Gridner pump system to get to the sewer. Sleeve the discharge line because of your length.

Contact a High Quality Company such as :

Zoeller Pump Company
3649 Cane Run Rd.
Louisville, KY 40211

Phone: 1-800-928-7867

They can gov eyou a distributror. Stay away from the HD and L big Box stores who sell low grade equipment.

If your local codes require Inspectoins , Licensed installers or certifier, engineering etc go thru that hassle as it is worth it to have a system you can rely on. Wirst thing is the system fails or what happened to a frind that did not take my advice is that he could not sell his home until the licensed repair was done so he paid 2x.

Maybe you guys skipped my answer; use the second chamber of the septic tank as the pump chamber, not disabling the overflow into the old leach system. THAT is a duplex system ++++ on its own with a 500 gallon "basin". Now you are pumping clean effluent not ground up turds and tampons. Its just common sense.

This is also California and not the East coast - more wiggle room with the gov in most areas. The key is getting straight answers from the government - you will NOT as a consumer across the counter,you must get a hired gun that knows how to finesse a system that wants your DOLLARS and for you to be stupid of the actual regulations.

Sewer hookup is still voluntary in many areas - he has to get the answers.

If no one wants to think outside the "box" then yes, blow a wad on a great Zoeller pump and enrich the county that is nearing bankruptcy by their preying on our vulnerabilities. At least save by using a single pump system and run an overflow into the septic tank if the educated idiots that pretend to protect the public will permit it.

If not red tagged yet- just fix it quick and quiet. Be happy the trees are there.

I am installing a septic system now- the health inspector said yes, 50 feet of rock and pipe would be adequate for me, but the state says 150' - the other 100' is just bull^&^%$. A rare honest public servant.
.

Your entire posting is a "hack system", and would probably NOT pass inspection in any jurisdiction.

I would follow what hj is posting ! !

Ballvalve in the boonies of Northfork, CA. May be able to get by the A.H.J. City,county, where ever but he does not know sxxt about the correct way to do plumbing
and as you do not want to be facing "thousands" of dollars in fines or medical bills
for following some hacks ideal,
it is better to go with licensed professionals
#1 As far as sizing the system you need to speak with the inspectors then get on the phone with several pump mfg's to see what they have that meets what the inspector requires !
#2 You have to run the sewer at "least" minimum 12" lower and 12" horizontal from potable water lines per code ! !
#3 Your electric has to be in separate pipe chase under driveway per code ! !

These are all thing as a licensed plumber I would check out and know before I would price
materials or give you a bid to do work at the minimum
plus cost of permits,city hook up fee,septic pump out and back fill, rental on trencher,
and boring tool to go under driveway, electric panel upgrade to carry load of pump systems, what side of house to run air vent up above roof on ? Etc, etc, etc,

LICENSED C-36 PLUMBING CONTRACTOR IN CA. SINCE 1989

There is no "hack" involved in any part of my program except fixing the existing system that probably worked for 50 years without a glitch by NOT getting a permit. HJ, how many septic systems have you personally extracted and replaced the rock and pipe in? The old rock bio-slimes up and the trench sidewalls get plugged with years of fines and bacteria. Widening the trench and replacing the rock is a CODE and ENGINEERING acceptable solution. I did not comment on his pump run except to say a smaller pipe is possible with proper filter screens. A well type submersible pump is approved and some are specifically designed for this use.

And Mcplumb, you do not know s^&^% about the boonies or what a plumber does with septics here. NEVER met a plumber that had a thing to do with septic tanks and fields except glue on the inlet pipe. Need a seperate licence here in the boonies, so if a plumber touches my septic its off code.

Hj, you must be referring to my hack as using the second chamber of a cleaned septic tank as the pump basin. You have not heard of Orenco systems? This is done extremely commonly and with the blessings of all the precious code authorities. I have done many with my boonie county inspector [yes, he has teeth and went to a college] . Even if he bought a NEW septic tank, its cheaper than 2 monster grinder pumps.

Chamber 2 of septic tank ~ pump screen chamber ~ float switches and high water alarm~ small effluent pump, and can be a pentair submersible made for cisterns - 329$ ~ pipe out to sewer or engineered leach field. Where is the hack? With your 30 gallon basin all the S**&&%^ runs in your yard when the power goes out for 4 hours. In my system the run over goes into the now refreshed and dry old leach field, or into a short dedicated run of chambers to accept small overflow in power outages. Don't mention battery back up for this big system - he is not the federal government.

NOT a hack, but then hackers are pretty damn smart at thinking outside the box and solving problems. And they can be solved within code. I am simply making the best use of what is already there. If it was fresh house and yard, sure, go for the grinders and let the yard fill up with sewage when they rent it out or the alarms fail for a month. THAT is code approved!

And by the way if it helps you guys, I have alot of other trade licenses from the state, just dont like to boast.

And by the by the way, if its a "hack" I'll post a scan of a 1500$ set of plans, one of many, engineer stamped, that do exactly what I have described. This is not some scheme that fell out of my head after 3 bottles of wine.

quote; HJ, how many septic systems have you personally extracted and replaced the rock and pipe in?

NONE!! That is NOT a plumber's job, but I have abandoned MANY, MANY systems to connect them to the city sewers, and we ALWAYS have to completely disable the septic tank by collapsing the cover and filling them with dirt or gravel. In addition, since most system here use a drywell/cistern, it also has to be filled to prevent future accidents if the cover were to fail. THERE is NO option. I also doubt that many "electicians" have done it either.

I have worked on many septic systems including installing, repairing, and running bypass
like hj says,
i have also seen or worked with people who have had tank lids collapse from under trucks
and other vehicles that did not know that there was eather a live tank or a lost one
and this is legal under my license

Obviously if its an old one chamber cistern with a rotten or wood lid that might be driven on, get rid of it. A local precast place can bring you a 3 or 400 gallon certified pump tank with a riser so you know where it is. But if its a 2 chamber septic tank from the past 40 years, shut off the inflow for a day and measure if there is any leakage. What the code SHOULD regulate is cement risers that are permanently accesible. Foolish that they do not. Out of site, out of mind is a bad idea for septic, and is usually why they fail. I try and pump my tanks every few years and even make a riser for the distribution box. D boxes often shift over time and then all the crap goes into one line instead of 3 or 4.

This guys tank probably failed because of no maintenance, bad d- box and inaccesible covers. Thats a spot I could agree with the authorities on regulation, because the average American checks their septic as often as their well pressure tanks - which is to say when it dies.

Did a septic that ended up under a brick walk and landscaping - made sure to add a brass cap inscribed with septic inlet and outlet lid, which are a few feet below. At worst a minute with a metal detector will locate it. I always try and draw a map with a paint marker on the utility room wall showing septic parameters and location. A few minutes work that can save a weeks work later. I also set pvc inspection risers at the ends of each leach line - again, generally not required - but 8 bucks spent to save thousands later.

A GOOD septic system with total accesibility is far preferable to spending billions on a plant that cant get rid of its toxic residue. Obviously with population density increasing, such plants are sadly needed. California has proposed regulations for 10 year inspections, but most doubt it will pass in this monetary climate.