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View Full Version : ISOBAR Automatic Filter Control Valve & R/O advice



246epa
03-06-2010, 07:18 AM
Any news on this make of control valve.
Have a 26 year old Culligan Mk59, which I don't want to spend $300 on.
Having read these forums I gather the Clack WS1 EE is a good valve & doing it myself will be about half the price of a new Culligan unit & about a 1/3 less than a unit with the above Isobar head on.

Any advice on how to spot a good undersink R/O unit i.e. whats the difference between one & another apart from the number of filter stages.

Many Thanks

Gary Slusser
03-06-2010, 07:42 AM
The Isobar 2092 control valve is a modified version of the Fleck 5600.

That makes it very proprietary to Amtrol/WaterSoft dealers or plumbers, and there are very few WaterSoft dealers. And if I'm reading their specs right, it is a 1" ported valve, unlike the 5600 which is 3/4" so I doubt many stock parts will be able to be used to repair it.

The CS version of the Clack WS-1 is a much better choice. And Clack is industry standard stock stuff, not proprietary to one company so there are many dealers to get parts from.

Akpsdvan
03-06-2010, 10:29 AM
Gray has it right on the 5600 wana be...

It is ok,,,,,,,,, but parts are double the fleck parts..
If you like the lay out of the Isobar valve then the Fleck 5600SXT with 3/4 turbin meter would be a good chioce, easy programing, valve and parts are easy to work on.

It would be good to change over from the Culligan system of a steel media tank to a fiberglass tank and upgrade the valve. The brine tank could be reusued with a different float assembly.

RO systems, Hydrotech has one... a bit spendy but it is Very Simple and take up less room that most others. Stages are the filters that are before and after the RO membrane .. and there are different gallons per day units, some down at 10-15 and they go up from there.. water temp is a factor when sizing the RO. If your water is 40F and you would like 25 gallons in a 24 hour time frame then you will need a 75 gallon per day unit and Hydrotech has one..

Skip Wolverton
03-06-2010, 03:03 PM
And I like the Fleck 5600 meter demand system. I don't like the electronics put on softeners. I have seen too many problems with them.

Akpsdvan
03-06-2010, 03:10 PM
A bullet proof valve.............. 5600 day or meter......... much like the timex... takes a licking and keeps ticking.....
but when changes are needed to the cleaning cycle... nothing beats the 2500,251,2750 as they all share the same front controls and motor along with other parts, only the valve changes for flow rates, and the old 2500 is still running, it has been replaced with the 2510....

Gary Slusser
03-06-2010, 05:06 PM
And the Clack WS-1 in any version is much better for a DIYer than any Fleck valve.

Akpsdvan
03-06-2010, 05:21 PM
How so?

What is there that backs that statement?

Proof.. we would like to see Proof..............

Gary Slusser
03-06-2010, 09:19 PM
How so?

What is there that backs that statement?

Proof.. we would like to see Proof..............
1360+ sales in over 6 yrs and only 28 warranty problems. Anyone with the desire and a pair of Channel Lock type pliers can rebuild it by replacing all 5 replaceable parts in under 30 minutes. To program it usually takes only a couple minutes. The Clack WS-1 CS version has variable reserve and delayed and immediate regeneration while it's the latest improved version of the world famous Fleck seals, spacers and piston design but it has many fewer parts like all the seals and spacers of the Fleck plus 2 more seals and three more spacers all go in and come out as one piece. And there is no separate brine piston/valve. The turbine assembly comes out the side of the outlet so you don't have to disconnect the valve from the by pass valve or plumbing to get to it. It runs on 12 v ac and has a very long (15' or 25", I can't recall) thin power cord like a telephone or computer mouse cable. Unlike Fleck, there is no Teflon coating anywhere on a Clack WS-1. And it has very few moving parts.

Akpsdvan
03-06-2010, 11:11 PM
Let me know how that seal pack comes out when it is loaded with iron build up.............

While the Fleck does not have the Pack,,, it is seals and spacers and one of the spacers may get broken while coming out, it is only one and can be replaced by one spacer .. the seal pack if it does not come out easy... then it is lost and will have to be replace in total just like the culligan seal pack..

Gary Slusser
03-06-2010, 11:39 PM
It comes out with a curled finger tip in the hole the piston came out of. And since my customers use the right amount of Iron Out and do it on the schedule I give then, there is no iron build up.

Skip Wolverton
03-07-2010, 03:42 AM
It comes out with a curled finger tip in the hole the piston came out of. And since my customers use the right amount of Iron Out and do it on the schedule I give then, there is no iron build up.
Are you there to watch your customers do this? I think not. I've found that customers do about half of want is told to them. And now prove to everyone that you have had only 28 warranty calls. If you can not prove it, don't brag about it. You don't hear me saying that in 20+ years of selling the Fleck 5600 I've sold X amount and have had only Y amount of warranty calls. Give the OP your opinion, not your resume.

Ak. I agree that the Fleck 2500, 2510 and 2700 are great valves. But I would not sell one with electronics.

Peter Griffin
03-07-2010, 04:52 AM
It's like arguing Ford Vs Chevy. Pointless.

Gary Slusser
03-07-2010, 09:09 AM
Are you there to watch your customers do this? I think not. I've found that customers do about half of want is told to them. And now prove to everyone that you have had only 28 warranty calls. If you can not prove it, don't brag about it. You don't hear me saying that in 20+ years of selling the Fleck 5600 I've sold X amount and have had only Y amount of warranty calls. Give the OP your opinion, not your resume. .
Well first I wasn't talking to the OP, I replied to AKpsdvan's question to me but why do you consider that I'm lying about the 28 warranty problems?

You have a different set of customer than I have. I sell online to DIYers and you sell to those people that want to depend on you for installation and service. My customers usually pay attention t owhat I tell them and do it. Those that don't... they learn to do that eventually.

BTW, sooner or later some of your customers will eventually get sick of paying you to do things for them and they will become interested in doing it themselves and get on the internet. And if I'm right you'll call them names and talk bad about them.

Instead you should get your head out of the sand about electronic control valves like the Clack WS-1 that doesn't have the problems that you find with the big box store brands you service.

Bob999
03-07-2010, 09:54 AM
BTW, sooner or later some of your customers will eventually get sick of paying you to do things for them and they will become interested in doing it themselves and get on the internet. And if I'm right you'll call them names and talk bad about them.


Gary, just because you disparage your customers you shouldn't assume others do it or will do it.


[/I]As you know that was Mechitty, a self proclaimed paranoid young lady with a very handsome but poor handyman type guy

Peter Griffin
03-07-2010, 10:28 AM
Well, I havn't sold 1300 of them by any stretch of the imagination and the ones I have sold have performed to expectations. I think I've had maybe a half dozen that had a problem with the internal battery wo when the power went off they would not re-set or re-program but Clack warrantied them with no questions asked. They are a nice valve. If your customer wants and electronic, demand valve IMO Clack is the way to go. That said, I still sell Fleck 2 to 1, mostly because of the cost issue, and like it or not, cost is an issue especially when you have Homo Depot and Lowes selling GE's and whatever else for under 4 bills. I get that damn question all the time. The whole secret is to know and educate your customer. I hate getting into a pissing match over who's valve and or tank is better. Better is always subjective and should always be based on a number of factors and even then I am always glad that there are options and choices rather than relying on one particular brand.

Akpsdvan
03-07-2010, 11:23 AM
Even the best of cleaning with Iron out or any other resin cleaner is not going to stop the iron build up on the incoming parts of the valve.. there is always half of any valve that will only be dealing with untreated water.

When there is a seal cage in the valve if one of the incoming spacers gets loaded with iron it will stick to the inside of the valve making it hard to get out.. add to that when a spacer is screwed into the next spacer.. it is even more of a challenge to get out with out any damage to the spacer.

Peter Griffin
03-07-2010, 11:25 AM
Like I said, I have probably 2 dozen iron ruined valves in my storage room

Gary Slusser
03-07-2010, 11:54 AM
Even the best of cleaning with Iron out or any other resin cleaner is not going to stop the iron build up on the incoming parts of the valve.. there is always half of any valve that will only be dealing with untreated water.

When there is a seal cage in the valve if one of the incoming spacers gets loaded with iron it will stick to the inside of the valve making it hard to get out.. add to that when a spacer is screwed into the next spacer.. it is even more of a challenge to get out with out any damage to the spacer.
I have not heard of any of that yet and I have 13 ppm of iron running through some of the valves I've sold, but have not had the stack out of any of them yet. You need to look at the design of the Clack WS-1 stack to see why that doesn't happen.

Peter Griffin
03-07-2010, 11:57 AM
It does happen, I tore town and flushed a WS-1 last week. 9ppm iron. Plugged the valve just about solid in less than a year of service.

Gary Slusser
03-07-2010, 12:48 PM
Well, I havn't sold 1300 of them by any stretch of the imagination and the ones I have sold have performed to expectations. I think I've had maybe a half dozen that had a problem with the internal battery wo when the power went off they would not re-set or re-program but Clack warrantied them with no questions asked. They are a nice valve. If your customer wants and electronic, demand valve IMO Clack is the way to go. That said, I still sell Fleck 2 to 1, mostly because of the cost issue, and like it or not, cost is an issue especially when you have Homo Depot and Lowes selling GE's and whatever else for under 4 bills. I get that damn question all the time. The whole secret is to know and educate your customer. I hate getting into a pissing match over who's valve and or tank is better. Better is always subjective and should always be based on a number of factors and even then I am always glad that there are options and choices rather than relying on one particular brand.
My sales count is accurate right out of my database; 1362 as of a week or so ago.

I've never had a battery problem other than one that wasn't making contact when the softener was being installed. Never had a loss of memory problem. I've had maybe a dozen customers have blank displays or no metering and with a bit of magic I got them to fix the cause. I've only had 6-7 circuit boards that had to be replaced and a third or so had been struck by lightening and I've had 3 with error codes; two were replaced under warranty and one was just last week and I haven't heard back from the customer yet. So maybe he checked the things I told him and fixed the problem.

I don't have to compete with big box store brands because most people that call me have done research on the internet and don't want to buy one of them.

Gary Slusser
03-07-2010, 01:13 PM
It does happen, I tore town and flushed a WS-1 last week. 9ppm iron. Plugged the valve just about solid in less than a year of service.
I guess your customer wasn't using the right volume of Iron Out when and how he should have been.

What in the valve was just about plugged solid? And what did you have to do to get the stack out?

Akpsdvan
03-07-2010, 01:39 PM
It does happen, I tore town and flushed a WS-1 last week. 9ppm iron. Plugged the valve just about solid in less than a year of service.

Was this valve in Softener setting or filter setting?

Peter Griffin
03-07-2010, 01:51 PM
It was is set to soften, The customer bought the unit online. The customer never used Iron out or any product and didn't know he had too. The entire valve head was a mess. I'm not sure how my service tech got the stack out, I assume he hooked a finger in and lifted it out. On the plus side all he had to do was flush the crap out of it, Iron out the bed and backflush it to get is up and running again. I have only had battery back up problems with the WS-1 and my factory rep told me it was a known issue. Then again I don't have all that many ws-1's in service in this area.

Akpsdvan
03-07-2010, 02:19 PM
That customer might have been using some form of iron out in the salt... Morten with resin guard is a form of iron out and salt... but if the rest of the valve was loaded... it happens to every valve that is out there, untreated side of the valve take a beating when it comes to iron build up.

That flow through valve of Clack, the 1190 is a great one for upflow neutralizers ... makes filling the tank so much nicer than the in on the right and out on the left types or using a 2nd tank adapter from a twin set up...

And that bypass... a little different from the one fleck came out with years ago but a great bypass, full flow through.. and that is sweet...

Gary Slusser
03-07-2010, 03:07 PM
It was is set to soften, The customer bought the unit online. The customer never used Iron out or any product and didn't know he had too. The entire valve head was a mess. I'm not sure how my service tech got the stack out, I assume he hooked a finger in and lifted it out.
Yep, all 7 seals is it with a spacer between them and only a finger tip is needed to remove them as one piece instead of all those separate seals and spacers in a Fleck that don't want to come out even with the special model specific Fleck tools even if there is no dirt build up.


On the plus side all he had to do was flush the crap out of it, Iron out the bed and backflush it to get it up and running again. I have only had battery back up problems with the WS-1 and my factory rep told me it was a known issue. Then again I don't have all that many ws-1's in service in this area.
Those 2 dozen iron ruined control valves you have in the back room, how many are the Clack WS-1 and do you want to sell them?

Akpsdvan
03-07-2010, 03:48 PM
1500,2500,2510,2750 are a bit of a challenge with out the pull and push tools, they can be done, the larger valves, and 5600 do not need the tool as fingers do very nicely..
Using the Channel Lock type is a no no on the Clack as it Could brake the plastic parts.. and warranty out the door... There is a Clack wrench that can turn just about every nut or form of nut that is on the valve.... and is the tool for working on the valve..


Almost forgot, just about every Fleck has a way of doing No Hard Water Bypass in a piston... there is not one listed for the clack, so to do that there would need to be a Solenoid put in place with a switch to close that solenoid while the unit is in a cleaning cycle if the need for no untreated water getting past the control.

Peter Griffin
03-07-2010, 03:58 PM
No Clack's back there......................................yet :)

Gary Slusser
03-07-2010, 10:15 PM
1500,2500,2510,2750 are a bit of a challenge with out the pull and push tools, they can be done, the larger valves, and 5600 do not need the tool as fingers do very nicely..
Using the Channel Lock type is a no no on the Clack as it Could brake the plastic parts.. and warranty out the door... There is a Clack wrench that can turn just about every nut or form of nut that is on the valve.... and is the tool for working on the valve..
Careful use of pliers works but I include the wrench with all Clack WS-1 control valves.


Almost forgot, just about every Fleck has a way of doing No Hard Water Bypass in a piston... there is not one listed for the clack, so to do that there would need to be a Solenoid put in place with a switch to close that solenoid while the unit is in a cleaning cycle if the need for no untreated water getting past the control.
Yes there is a no hard water bypass piston, just read about it about last Wednesday when checking that I had the latest version manual and looking up an error code definition and possible causes.

Akpsdvan
03-07-2010, 10:34 PM
Right tool for any job is choice One.....

Gary Slusser
03-07-2010, 10:56 PM
Then you should be using the Fleck 5600 tools, especially on those plugged up with rust because I know fingers alone aren't going to get the spacers out.

Peter, you said you tore down and flushed iron out of a Clack last week and then you say your tech did it and you don't know how he got the stack out... You also said you had a dozen valves loaded up with rust in the back room when we were talking about the Clack yet now you say none of them are Clack...

Akpsdvan
03-07-2010, 11:09 PM
Here we go again.......

The starter is long gone and we are acting like the school play ground bully...

Every valve has pros and cons and falls pray to the Save problems in water treatment.

Iron build up
Seals going bad
Spacers loading up and a pain to get out
Injectors pluging
Pistons getting scoring

There are some that are more user friendly and there are some that are not
There are some that the parts are easy to get and there are others that only the Corp store is the place to get them
Some clean up easy some not so easy
Some are to last for 10's of years others maybe 5 years and need to be replaced.


Any one can be an expert in another part of the country, few can be an expert to the people that they see every day in the local stores.

Peter Griffin
03-08-2010, 03:00 AM
I have 6 guys that work for me. I personally have not done Jack in the field for almost 5 years. I assume he pulled it out by hand but I'll ask him this morning when he comes in. I never said I had any Clack valves back there, in fact I think I said I did'nt have any Clack valves back there and there and I'll bet theres more than a dozen back there though I suppose I could run on back and count them too if you need me too. It's a motly collection of GE's, Autotrols, some Flecks, Kinetico's, all the usual stuff. Clack's have not been around these parts for them to start showing up in the junk pile yet. No need for arguing with me about Clack valves. I like them. I sell them , we install them and I've said many times that for an electronic, demand metered valve, Clack is my current valve of choice.

Skip Wolverton
03-08-2010, 05:19 AM
Here we go again.......

The starter is long gone and we are acting like the school play ground bully...

Every valve has pros and cons and falls pray to the Save problems in water treatment.

Iron build up
Seals going bad
Spacers loading up and a pain to get out
Injectors pluging
Pistons getting scoring

There are some that are more user friendly and there are some that are not
There are some that the parts are easy to get and there are others that only the Corp store is the place to get them
Some clean up easy some not so easy
Some are to last for 10's of years others maybe 5 years and need to be replaced.


Any one can be an expert in another part of the country, few can be an expert to the people that they see every day in the local stores.
Could not have said it better. Gary has a habit of making people look bad if they don't agree. I don't like electronics and he thinks I don't like the Clack valve. I have worked on them and found they are easy to work on (and so are the Big Box store to me), but it has electronics. I can buy it cheaper than a 5600 but choose it over the Clack because of the electronics. All units have their own unque problems. Clack included (and no I don't know what that is YET Gary).

Gary Slusser
03-08-2010, 10:14 AM
I've serviced softeners and filters for many years on more than 9 ppm of iron and I have never seen a control valve that was loaded up with rust that prevented it from operating or easily being rebuilt.

I've never seen that happen but I have heard many plumbers, well drillers and plumbing supply house counter people selling Autotrol say it does. Yet you guys go on as if a Clack WS-1 would have the same problem.

I've never replaced a control valve because of rust build up. That includes Autotrol, Brunner, Erie, Fleck, Water-Right, WaterCare, Kenmore, Culligan, General Ionics etc. etc. etc.. Yet you guys do, one has 2 dozen in the back room!

If you look at flow charts for the Clack and Fleck they'll show you that the inlet water comes in and goes in between two seals through a spacer and around the piston from the side and drops down into the tank. Look at the pictures below and you can see rust on the spacers but none on the edge of the seals tht seal on the inside of the hole the stack comes out of.

Now how you guys think rust is going to stop a Teflon coated or slick plastic piston from moving is beyond me. The piston seals and spacer design in the Clack is the same identical design as is used in Fleck. And there is no way that rust build up is going to prevent the Clack stack from being removed as you guys imply.
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10179
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10178

Akpsdvan
03-08-2010, 10:20 AM
I know what I have found in the valves in the field..
Say what you will, but I know what I have found..

Peter Griffin
03-08-2010, 11:21 AM
I'm done. I can only report what I have seen. I don't understand why it requires an argument. I never ever said that we replaced the clack valve or any of the parts for that matter. My service guy pulled it apart, cleaned the stack and put it back together. What you have seen or not seen is irrelavent because every installation is different and water conditions differ. We get iron, lots and lots of iron. It clogs filters, valves and water pumps. You want to take a trip out and check my junk pile then by all means gas up the motor home and stop on by. I'll even throw a steak on the barbie for ya.

Akpsdvan
03-08-2010, 11:33 AM
I am going to have to start taking some photos of the valves loaded with iron.....

Box is full,, no messeages......

Gary Slusser
03-08-2010, 12:11 PM
I know what I have found in the valves in the field..
Say what you will, but I know what I have found..
Fair enough, so tell us what you've found with a Clack WS-1 and describe it. The problem is you implied the Clack probably has the same problems the Fleck has.

Here's what you said; "Let me know how that seal pack comes out when it is loaded with iron build up.............

While the Fleck does not have the Pack,,, it is seals and spacers and one of the spacers may get broken while coming out, it is only one and can be replaced by one spacer .. the seal pack if it does not come out easy... then it is lost and will have to be replace in total just like the culligan seal pack.."

By "seal pack" you mean the Clack WS-1 stack, the gray thing in my picture. And you compare it to Fleck's separate seals and spacers, which is fine but has nothing to do with the rust/iron build up causing the Clack the problem is does in the Fleck. That's all I'm saying, what you see in Fleck doesn't mean Clack has the same problems. And since I seem to have been involved with Clack for 6 yrs longer than you, maybe I know more about the Clack WS-1 than you or Peter do.

I have this valve treating raw water out of the Colorado River in Texas. I mention that because when it rains down there in Spring TX, it's the dirtiest water I can think of right now. I have it on a mixed bed turbidity filter backwashing every 3 or 4 days, I can't recall which. I talked to the owner when he ordered chlorine pellets last fall, he's a dentist and has a 'summer' place on the river. He also has the Clack on a Centaur filter and a softener there. He bought it all 1/8/2006, 4+ yrs ago. I also have the Clack WS-1 on softeners on up to 13 ppm of iron.

You also have said in this thread on page 2, "When there is a seal cage in the valve if one of the incoming spacers gets loaded with iron it will stick to the inside of the valve making it hard to get out.. add to that when a spacer is screwed into the next spacer.. it is even more of a challenge to get out with out any damage to the spacer.".

Look at the picture of the stack I posted, that doesn't/can't happen with the the Clack WS-1 stack.

Screwed into the next spacer? There is a seal between the spacers in both the Fleck and Clack valves. So I'm not understanding what you're referring to but it doesn't apply to the Clack WS-1; which is what we are talking about.

Rust on spacers, you simply blow or beat it off or use a toothbrush to clean it off or like I always did, replace the spacers with the seals. I never reused either, or installed new on an old piston or a new piston in old seals and spacers.

I have not seen or heard from a customer yet that rust sticks inside the hole the Clack stack goes into in the valve body but, I agree that Fleck spacers won't come out easily if anything is lining the inside of the hole they are in in the valve body, that's why they make the special model specific Fleck tools to get them out.

Gary Slusser
03-08-2010, 12:35 PM
I'm done. I can only report what I have seen. I don't understand why it requires an argument. I never ever said that we replaced the clack valve or any of the parts for that matter. My service guy pulled it apart, cleaned the stack and put it back together. What you have seen or not seen is irrelavent because every installation is different and water conditions differ. We get iron, lots and lots of iron. It clogs filters, valves and water pumps. You want to take a trip out and check my junk pile then by all means gas up the motor home and stop on by. I'll even throw a steak on the barbie for ya.
I agree with reporting what you've seen but you haven't seen a Clack WS-1 stop because of rust build up.

Here's what you said in your second reply in this thread: " Like I said, I have probably 2 dozen iron ruined valves in my storage room"

But you hadn't already said anything like that. And later we find out there isn't one in the Storage room that is a Clack WS-1. And if there were any I'd be asking why you are replacing valves instead of repairing them...

Your next reply was; "It does happen, I tore town and flushed a WS-1 last week. 9ppm iron. Plugged the valve just about solid in less than a year of service."

Then you said; "It was is set to soften, The customer bought the unit online. The customer never used Iron out or any product and didn't know he had too. The entire valve head was a mess. I'm not sure how my service tech got the stack out, I assume he hooked a finger in and lifted it out. On the plus side all he had to do was flush the crap out of it, Iron out the bed and backflush it to get is up and running again."

So you haven't had or seen a problem with getting the stack out of a Clack WS-1 either.

But you seemed to say you had when agreeing with AKpsdvan when he said there should be a problem because of the problems with Fleck spacers not coming out with any build up in the hole in the valve body.

Now I'll ask you what was wrong with that softener with the Clack WS-1 because you made it sound as if rust in the stack caused a problem, specifically, how was that rust a problem?

Akpsdvan
03-08-2010, 12:37 PM
This thread is now spinning in a very tight circle and going no where very fast........

Gary Slusser
03-08-2010, 12:52 PM
This thread is now spinning in a very tight circle and going no where very fast........
Revive it when you get pictures of a Clack WS-1 plugged up with rust that prevents you from getting the stack out.

Skip Wolverton
03-08-2010, 01:26 PM
By your own admission Gary, you are not, repeat not, in the field. You don't have svc tech's telling you want they find. And that pic looks as though there might be .5ppm iron.

Peter Griffin
03-08-2010, 02:53 PM
Holy hopping horney toads Batman, this is going from the ridiculous to the sublime.

LET ME CLARIFY because I apparantly confused people here ( OK 1 people here )

1 - I HAVE NO CLACK VALVES IN MY JUNK PILE. ZERO, NILL, NADA!
2 - The Clack valve my guy serviced was plugged with iron.
3 - He removed the stack assembly with his finger, washed it and flushed the valve body. Put it back together and it's fine
4 - He schooled the customer in the proper use of Iron Out
5 - I like Clack Valves. I sell Clack Valves. Clack valves are the bomb if you need a demand metered valve head
6 - I have not, nor have my tech's run into a Clack valve that they could not get the stack out of.........................yet

NOW CAN WE PUT THIS ONE TO BED? Or do I have to drag out my beating the dead horse Gif again?

246epa
03-09-2010, 05:42 AM
Many thanks for the advice!!! & sorry as I did not mean to open up such a can of worms.
Can everyone not agree to differ as I don't think you are going to change the others views & I'm sure you all have better things to do with your time than spend it splitting hairs.

Many thanks again, but I must admit the only thing I have discovered is the Isobar is a no no.

Peter Griffin
03-09-2010, 12:19 PM
Ok well I think the question was answered in the first couple of posts. If you want a demand metered valve the Clack WS-1 is a very good choice. If you don't want demand metering or are afraid of electronic heads then go with a Fleck 5600. I use Watts for my RO filtration but there are a lot of good ones ( and junk ) out there. Just remember that you get what you pay for. I like the Watts because changing out the cartridges is very fast and easy.

Bob999
03-09-2010, 12:50 PM
The Fleck 5600 is available with demand metering.

http://www.pentairwatertreatment.com/PentairFiles/Pentair%20Water%20Treatment/Literature/5600%20Spec%20Sheet%2040730.pdf

Akpsdvan
03-10-2010, 10:06 PM
For a Home 0 grains will work, For Boilers and Steam Gennies 0 grains may not be true 0 grains, it HAS to be messured in ppm! 3ppm of hardness can mean problems for the system.
While a system may pass for the home it may not pass for boilers or Steam Gennies..

Gary Slusser
03-10-2010, 10:30 PM
For a Home 0 grains will work, For Boilers and Steam Gennies 0 grains may not be true 0 grains, it HAS to be messured in ppm! 3ppm of hardness can mean problems for the system.
While a system may pass for the home it may not pass for boilers or Steam Gennies..
Yeah I know, the same for metal plating, chemical manufacturing etc. etc. but not residential.

Bob999
03-11-2010, 04:46 AM
Some residential customers want very low hardness and are educated so they know someone telling them that 17 ppm is 0 gpg is blowing smoke.