Kohler Persuade K-3654 Dual Flush toilet

I need to totally gut my bathroom. I was looking at new toilets. Really like the design of the new Kohler Persuade . I wonder if you have any reviews/comments? If you are not a fan can you offer alternatives that offer same basic design?
Space is a bit tight that is why the Kohler is a good solution, it also matches the bump out/bulbous shape of the sink and vanity
thank you

http://www.us.kohler.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/1087557_4.pdf

http://www.us.kohler.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/1087557_2.pdf

Many of the people are not thrilled with Kohler, partly because of their propensity to use proprietary parts which can be hard to find and expensive, and partly in their QA/QC.

The Toto Aquia is a well respected toilet that looks similar.

Kohler is living because of there familiar name and reputation which was earned and well deserved in the past. However, times are different now and there are new players in the business that have far surpassed Kohler. One of the main complaints voice on this forum about Kohler is as jadnashua stated is their myriad of different parts, many of which must be purchased directly from Kohler at sometimes hundreds of dollars. The seem to reinvent the wheel (flushing system) over and over again. Toto on the other hand uses standard parts that are available at virtually every hardware store and plumbing shop. Not only that, but some Kohler models are prone to problems. All models of Toto toilets work as they should.

According to the latest Map test, the Persuade gets a 600g rating. How is this toilet in terms of bowl cleansing etc? At first I wasn't looking at this model because it wasn't ADA but the bowl height is 15-3/4" instead of the 16-1/8" of the Aquia III. No difference to me. I guess the install sounds tricky due to the baseboard removal etc... but it's a nice looking toilet.

Can anyone comment on performance? The price is very good here in Canada ($370 incl soft close seat) where as an Aquia III will be $600 (once it becomes available). For reference, an Eco-Drake is running $500.

Thanks a lot,

Dan

I looked at one of those at the supply house.
It is without a doubt the most plumber unfriendly toilet I have ever seen.
Call me to work on that POS and a new Toto will be cheaper!

Hi Terry,

There's been an update to the MaP report in November 2008 (see link). I guess Kohler tweaked the Persuade a bit.

http://www.veritec.ca/uploads/13th Edition Full Report.pdf

Hi Redwood,

I'll be installing it myself so if it takes me all day then so be it. I just want to make sure that it's better than the Kohler Wellworth round front's that I had in my old place that came standard from the builder. That bad boy used to clog all the time.

Any help or experience with flush performance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Dan

Before you buy take a look at what it would take to change a fill valve.

It is usually a minor job and is one of the most common repairs done on a toilet after replacing a flapper. Where is the nut that secures the fill valve and what do you have to do to reach it?

A 20 minute job that could take you all day with this model!
Only a bonehead could dream up something as stupid as this design!

I love it, I have hated Kohler all my life due to the unneccessary pain they put into repairing their valves of all types. I've only worked w/ a couple old timers for my whole career and so to hear other people say the exact same things about Kohler is awesome.

Kohler is only good for sinks and tubs. That's it. Their china pedestal sinks are better than most but that's really about it. Never buy any type of valve from Kohler ever if you have a choice, that includes most especially the toilets and their internal parts. While some of their cheap ones are starting to use normal parts, just the pain and bullcrap they have put plumbers through for the last few decades warrants a complete boycott of their toilets.

My favorite one was a customer who had a lowboy of theirs that was going to cost me $350 to buy their ballcock for her toilet. Who's going to spend that much on a 30 year old toilet that could crack as soon as you touch it?

My wife's parents have one that took me over an hour just tracking down the part #s so they could buy the parts to repair it. Try to get warranty parts, be prepared to wait a month for a stupid chain and clip.