Okay, I have an Ecowater Systems water softener, and the tank in which I put the salt (I cant think of the name for that thing) is full of water. Not just a little bit, but completely full. That water has erroded what should be about a three month supply of salt to practically nothing in a week. When I manually drain the tank, if fills back up when the system recharges. Any advise? Is this a problem I could fix myself, or do I need professionals?
Water Softener problem
- Thread starter nrwilli
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I don't know if this will help or not, but here goes. I have a Kenmore water softener, and every 2-3 years need to open up the valve assembly and replace the "rotor and disc." This year I also replaced the venturi and gasket.
I had a similar problem to you, although the water level never filled the tank -- would come up to the 10" float height, no higher, but then would never drain out since the unit wasn't able to draw brine.
I don't know if Ecowater systems are similar to the valves used in Kenmore units, but you could check out www.kenmorewater.com and run their troubleshooting animation. I found it EXTREMELY useful in diagnosing and fixing mine.
I had a similar problem to you, although the water level never filled the tank -- would come up to the 10" float height, no higher, but then would never drain out since the unit wasn't able to draw brine.
I don't know if Ecowater systems are similar to the valves used in Kenmore units, but you could check out www.kenmorewater.com and run their troubleshooting animation. I found it EXTREMELY useful in diagnosing and fixing mine.
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Gary Slusser
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Actually Ecowater makes the Sears Kenmore, GE, Whirlpool, Morton and 1-2 other low priced big box store brands. Most share the same internal parts and the control valve. Many fail in 2-6 years.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
Gary
Quality Water Associates
Gary's right. In as many years as I've been dealing with water softeners, I still dread having to service an Ecowater system. They are very service-unfriendly. However, you may as well take a look at a couple of things that may be simple to get some extra time out of the thing before you replace it with a system that is a bit more, well, hardy.
Try replacing the tube that runs from the salt tank to the softener, making sure that it is absolutely airtight. When the system regenerates, if the drain line is restricted in any way, it could cause a similar problem, so make sure that it's clear. The easiest, best, but not the least expensive way to completely remedy the problem is to replace it.
Try replacing the tube that runs from the salt tank to the softener, making sure that it is absolutely airtight. When the system regenerates, if the drain line is restricted in any way, it could cause a similar problem, so make sure that it's clear. The easiest, best, but not the least expensive way to completely remedy the problem is to replace it.
Gary Slusser
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I think you mean Fleck control valves. They are very high quality but one that is better IMO is the Clack WS-1. Second best is the Fleck 7000SE. They both can be repaired without any special tools unlike the other residential Fleck models. The Clack WS-1 and Fleck 7000SE have soft water brine refill and variable reserve and the 7000SE has variable brining like the Fleck 6700. The Clack WS-1 is the easiest and fastest to repair and the replacement parts are the least expensive of any manufacturers' parts.
And I suggest that you buy over the internet and install your own softener. Anyone that has the desire can do it.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
And I suggest that you buy over the internet and install your own softener. Anyone that has the desire can do it.
Gary
Quality Water Associates
Could not have answered better than Gary. Fleck is a high quality valve, as is Clack. I grew up repairing Fleck 5600s and 9000s. Take a look at Autotrol as well, they have made some amazing new valves in the past few years. It is also a quality product.
gpayne
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nrwilli said:
If you haven't gotten this fixed yet...
I had the same problem with my Ecowater 2000 model. The problem is the seal between the main housing and the rotary housing. During recharge the seal will sometimes twist causing a "non-sealed" condition when the unit is not charging. What bugs me is the replacement seal cost $20.00, it looks
as though it should cost about $1.00.
Master Plumber Mark
Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
what is it all worth??
The part cost about 20 bucks and it sounds like
you know how to fix that piece of junk...
Now, how difficult is it to make repairs to it??
what is your time worth,,,
how much would you charge someone for a normal
service situatioin??
and how long will this repair last before troubles start again???
----------------------------------------------------------------
I just tell people to pitch it out the door and
get a Autotrol or fleck type water conditioner
and live hapily ever after....
The part cost about 20 bucks and it sounds like
you know how to fix that piece of junk...
Now, how difficult is it to make repairs to it??
what is your time worth,,,
how much would you charge someone for a normal
service situatioin??
and how long will this repair last before troubles start again???
----------------------------------------------------------------
I just tell people to pitch it out the door and
get a Autotrol or fleck type water conditioner
and live hapily ever after....
Dunbar Plumbing
Master Plumber
The majority of my customers treat water softeners the same as water heaters; run them to the ground till they stop working and buy another one. The majority do not want to "know" how to fix a water softener unless it is an O-ring or leaking connection into the softener itself. Age of the unit also is a convincing factor of whether they want the unit to nickel and dime them or not.
Most customers don't want to know softener 101, they just want soft water. I just pulled out 2 water softeners recently, one 7 years old, one 11. Both were Kenmores, both customers did not have any problems up to the point they broke. The specialized water softener guys want a flat rate $150 just to show up, and their speak is to sell, not repair the failing unit.
That is why Sears, Home Depot, Lowe's keep moving their product without the critics slowing them down. That is why the majority of homeowners go for the "cheap" fix because it limits the X amount of money spent, they have soft water and move on.
I'm there for those installs/replacements and the customers mainly worry about the final cost. You start talking about internal parts and the actual functioning of the unit and how it works, you might as well be talking chinese. It's going right over their head. For those who know their product before buying, spend spend spend. There is someone out there to fill your need locally or otherwise.
Most customers don't want to know softener 101, they just want soft water. I just pulled out 2 water softeners recently, one 7 years old, one 11. Both were Kenmores, both customers did not have any problems up to the point they broke. The specialized water softener guys want a flat rate $150 just to show up, and their speak is to sell, not repair the failing unit.
That is why Sears, Home Depot, Lowe's keep moving their product without the critics slowing them down. That is why the majority of homeowners go for the "cheap" fix because it limits the X amount of money spent, they have soft water and move on.
I'm there for those installs/replacements and the customers mainly worry about the final cost. You start talking about internal parts and the actual functioning of the unit and how it works, you might as well be talking chinese. It's going right over their head. For those who know their product before buying, spend spend spend. There is someone out there to fill your need locally or otherwise.
gpayne said:
Are you sure you're not quoting the price for the seal kit? I've never seen a main seal sold ala carte, at least for my softener.
The seal kit, on the other hand, probably costs about $1.50 to produce...
In any event, about every 3 years, I do a seal kit and rotor replacement on mine when it stops sucking brine. Takes me about 20 minutes. For now, I'll keep nickel-and-diming it until the resin breaks down or the timer motor quits, then go for a Clack or Fleck unit.
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We have had good luck with our Ecowater 3000 to this point (about 4 years) without a repair. I have checked the venturi and filter a couple of times and found nothing in it. Hopefully, that will continue.
When we were shopping for a softener, I got parts lists/explosions from Ecowater for their brand and Sears, and the Ecowater unit used a completely different assembly for the mechanics, as well as a different computer. We went with the Ecowater because it had the electronics that monitors useage and adjusts the capacity to match, which works very well for our low useage/hi iron problems.
When I talked to one of the techs in the test lab at Ecowater, he basically said what most here are saying, maintenance after 3-4 years, but only for the Sears style control. He claimed more like 10 years on the Ecowater branded style (maybe biased?). Does the model 2000 use the smaller, Sears style, mechanism?
When we were shopping for a softener, I got parts lists/explosions from Ecowater for their brand and Sears, and the Ecowater unit used a completely different assembly for the mechanics, as well as a different computer. We went with the Ecowater because it had the electronics that monitors useage and adjusts the capacity to match, which works very well for our low useage/hi iron problems.
When I talked to one of the techs in the test lab at Ecowater, he basically said what most here are saying, maintenance after 3-4 years, but only for the Sears style control. He claimed more like 10 years on the Ecowater branded style (maybe biased?). Does the model 2000 use the smaller, Sears style, mechanism?
Gary Slusser
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From what I've been told and I see on the Kenmore site, the disc, o-rings and gasket kit is like $60.
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Kenmore
Gary,
I've been repairing my Kenmore for 9 years ( 1 under warrenty). In all that time I've only had to replace one rotor seal. Most of the time it's just the venturi needing cleaned ( you know, high water in the tank, no soft water). I've got quite adept at repairing and it's no big deal to me, but recently the water wasn't as soft as it should have been. I watched it go through a regeneration and every thing is working as it should. I didn't think it was me so I had the water tested. I have 7 grains coming in the house and 4 grains coming out of the softener. My question is, do the resin beads wear out or is there something I'm overlooking? If they do wear out, does 10 years seem about right with 7 grains of hardness and 4 people in the household?
Thanks, Dan
Gary,
I've been repairing my Kenmore for 9 years ( 1 under warrenty). In all that time I've only had to replace one rotor seal. Most of the time it's just the venturi needing cleaned ( you know, high water in the tank, no soft water). I've got quite adept at repairing and it's no big deal to me, but recently the water wasn't as soft as it should have been. I watched it go through a regeneration and every thing is working as it should. I didn't think it was me so I had the water tested. I have 7 grains coming in the house and 4 grains coming out of the softener. My question is, do the resin beads wear out or is there something I'm overlooking? If they do wear out, does 10 years seem about right with 7 grains of hardness and 4 people in the household?
Thanks, Dan
dt196
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Steve,
That's not it. When that seal goes bad it won't put water in the brine well or draw brine which it does. Like I said, it works, puts the proper amount of water in the brine well and draws it back down, backwashes, rinses etc. The only thing, is that the water coming out is only partially softened. It still has 4 grains hardness.
That's not it. When that seal goes bad it won't put water in the brine well or draw brine which it does. Like I said, it works, puts the proper amount of water in the brine well and draws it back down, backwashes, rinses etc. The only thing, is that the water coming out is only partially softened. It still has 4 grains hardness.
Bob NH
In the Trades
Life of Resins, and Sources of Resins
http://www.lenntech.com/water-softener-FAQ.htm
6.1 When does a softener resin need replacement?
When the water does not become soft enough, one should first consider problems with the salt that is used, or mechanical malfunctions of softener components. When these elements are not the cause of the unsatisfactory water softening, it may be time to replace the softener resin, or perhaps even the entire softener.
Through experience we know that most softener resins and ion exchanger resins last about twenty to twenty-five years.
Sources of resin:
http://www.bigbrandwater.com/purolitec100e.html
Fix the link below before you use it.
http://www.plumbing supply.com/watersoftenersresins.html
Purolite C-100 Resin description:
Gel type, particularly for softening. Resin specially treated for domestic use and for industrial use where potable water is required.
SOFTENING ION EXCHANGE RESIN LIFE - Softening resins, or for that matter all ion exchange resins, life is reduced by Chlorine in the feed water. Resin life was discussed in detail in PURONEWS - Volume 1 Issue 5 - May 2001. Standard resins such as PUROLITE C100 or C100E can withstand a Chlorine residual of 0.2 - 0.5 without a drastic life reduction. At levels of 1 ppm or higher the life will be significantly shortened. Each 1 ppm of Chlorine, on a continuous basis, will reduce resin life by one half. Softening resins should have a life of 10 years or more on Chlorine free water. We have seen life of over 30 years in many cases. If you have a high Chlorine residual in the feed water it is best to remove the Chlorine. Second best is to use a softening resin that has a higher DVB crosslinking. PUROLITE offers several different resins for use on water with higher Chlorine residuals:
The primary cause of reduced life on Chlorine bearing waters is the Chlorine attacks the DVB crosslinking in resin. Where standard softening resins have an 8% DVB crosslinking these resins have from 10% to as much as 20% DVB crosslinking. More DVB means longer resin life.
http://www.lenntech.com/water-softener-FAQ.htm
6.1 When does a softener resin need replacement?
When the water does not become soft enough, one should first consider problems with the salt that is used, or mechanical malfunctions of softener components. When these elements are not the cause of the unsatisfactory water softening, it may be time to replace the softener resin, or perhaps even the entire softener.
Through experience we know that most softener resins and ion exchanger resins last about twenty to twenty-five years.
Sources of resin:
http://www.bigbrandwater.com/purolitec100e.html
Fix the link below before you use it.
http://www.plumbing supply.com/watersoftenersresins.html
Purolite C-100 Resin description:
Gel type, particularly for softening. Resin specially treated for domestic use and for industrial use where potable water is required.
SOFTENING ION EXCHANGE RESIN LIFE - Softening resins, or for that matter all ion exchange resins, life is reduced by Chlorine in the feed water. Resin life was discussed in detail in PURONEWS - Volume 1 Issue 5 - May 2001. Standard resins such as PUROLITE C100 or C100E can withstand a Chlorine residual of 0.2 - 0.5 without a drastic life reduction. At levels of 1 ppm or higher the life will be significantly shortened. Each 1 ppm of Chlorine, on a continuous basis, will reduce resin life by one half. Softening resins should have a life of 10 years or more on Chlorine free water. We have seen life of over 30 years in many cases. If you have a high Chlorine residual in the feed water it is best to remove the Chlorine. Second best is to use a softening resin that has a higher DVB crosslinking. PUROLITE offers several different resins for use on water with higher Chlorine residuals:
The primary cause of reduced life on Chlorine bearing waters is the Chlorine attacks the DVB crosslinking in resin. Where standard softening resins have an 8% DVB crosslinking these resins have from 10% to as much as 20% DVB crosslinking. More DVB means longer resin life.
dt196
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Bob,
Thanks for the info and links. It would seem that my resin is indeed wore out. After checking my reciept, the softener has been in use since 1992, so 14 years is about right. My owners manual states that it has .77 cu. ft of High Capacity resin. How do I know what type to get? Is the purolite C-100E in your link the right amount and type for replacement? Since I know my way around this softener, it seems as if it would be cost effective to replace the resin as opposed to getting a new softener. Comments anybody? I'm open to suggestions and or comments.
Thanks
Thanks for the info and links. It would seem that my resin is indeed wore out. After checking my reciept, the softener has been in use since 1992, so 14 years is about right. My owners manual states that it has .77 cu. ft of High Capacity resin. How do I know what type to get? Is the purolite C-100E in your link the right amount and type for replacement? Since I know my way around this softener, it seems as if it would be cost effective to replace the resin as opposed to getting a new softener. Comments anybody? I'm open to suggestions and or comments.
Thanks
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