You just gotta see this plumbing job

Remodeling and repairs at their finest.

How to fit: Cast, PVC, Copper, ABS and Galvanized all within 8 feet of each other!

Also Fernco couplers above ground.

I was debating whether or not to mention the Fernco couplers but figured the pipe types were the main attraction.

I'm trying to make out what that is at the far end - is it an unvented trap at the base of a long PVC drop? That can't be good . . .

thats nice.....

anything can be done with fernco fittings,
a 12 pack of Budweiser,
and a willingness to learn.......


you ought to post that to my pip slop page..

that certainly would receive an "honorable mention"

Mark,

Right click on the photo and save as then post it wherever you want

Gary Swart said:

Also Fernco couplers above ground.

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What is the code for using ferncos?

As I understand it, the unbanded coupling is only supposed to be used under ground so that when you backfill the fill is supporting the pipes and keeps the ends aligned. Above ground, the metal band on the no-hub connector performs that function. If the ends of the pipe get misaligned, then it is a potential point for blockages, and could be a pain to have to snake it out as well.

Looks like the ABS has a cleanout going directly into a copper Tee.

Chris75 said:

What is the code for using ferncos?

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I've read many times about not using ferncos above ground, but never in the IRC, IPC or UPC, maybe local, but not any of the major codes, just bull to say it's against code unless local. It is not a good idea and many inspectors frown on it, but they are aproved by the federal guide lines as far as I've ever been able to determine. If some one can quote chapter and verse then please let us know. Use a banded fitting it is best IMO, but not a code that I can find. Like I said I would like to be able to quote a code so if you found it let us know, please.

just bull to say it's against code

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Well.........You can try telling that to the inspectors.
Do you have an inspector where you work that lets you use them?

I've never been allowed to use them.

I like the sleeved ones, wouldn't use one without, but I just want to know the article in the code that says you can't use one, I know it must be something to do with not enough support or something. I can't find an article that says not to use rubber ferncos except below grade. Maybe the inspector can explain, I just want to know and he's in Pa where I live.

Go here http://www.fernco.com/speccode.asp They have all the approvals and then check out their installation guides.

Terry said:

Well.........You can try telling that to the inspectors.
Do you have an inspector where you work that lets you use them?

I've never been allowed to use them.

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Terry, I'm an electrician by trade, but code is code, if they cannot re-cite it, then dont cite it... bottom line.

Chris75 said:

Terry, I'm an electrician by trade, but code is code, if they cannot re-cite it, then dont cite it... bottom line.

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Correct, but not practical in the real world I live in, I like to keep inspectors happy as I can. Keep the inspector gods happy.

construct30 said:

Correct, but not practical in the real world I live in, I like to keep inspectors happy as I can. Keep the inspector gods happy.

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Why are they somehow better than you? I would rather teach them then let them think they are right... Besides, a phone call to the state usually changes their opinion pretty quick.

An inspectors job is simple, they are really looking out for the customer, so them telling you not to use a easier product is actually causing hardship on the guy paying the bill... Is that fair?

Fernco

Here, Fernco rubber couplings cannot be used inside the building, even underground.

jar546 said:

I was debating whether or not to mention the Fernco couplers but figured the pipe types were the main attraction.

Click to expand...

I was hoping to get an inspector's point of view on this subject. The banded fernco's are just as easy to use and work well and add the extra support.

That being said, go to fernco's site, they have all the approvals and then look at their installation section.

I never said they, the inspectors, were better than me or us, I just said it is easier to appease them sometimes instead of making waves. I will argue with the best of them if it's worth it, within reason. If they have a good reason for not wanting something then good enough for me, I accept it and move on.

I just want to understand from an inspector's point of view, how a product with all the approvals can be against code when it is not actually written in the code. What are they using?

IPC or UPC, not local.

construct30 said:

I like the sleeved ones, wouldn't use one without, but I just want to know the article in the code that says you can't use one, I know it must be something to do with not enough support or something. I can't find an article that says not to use rubber ferncos except below grade. Maybe the inspector can explain, I just want to know and he's in Pa where I live.

Go here http://www.fernco.com/speccode.asp They have all the approvals and then check out their installation guides.

Click to expand...

But this is where the great divide is.

As plumbers we are consistently working "outside the book" in reference to a million situations that present us in everyday work. You can't "go to the book" always.

Sometimes you have to truly think of the situation (ferncos) and think to yourself, "Is this an appropriate, non-fouling, error-free way of constructing a plumbing system?

If you've been a plumber for any amount of time, you'll see these in their use because they are the shortcut to transitioning pipe, cheaply.

When they have to hold pressure due to a backup, they expand and bulge. They also leak if there are points of movement in the connection from vibration or operation of the fixture it connects to.

Piping can instantly become misaligned in those fittings above ground. They're fine for underground because instant compaction provides the support for the fitting, with the understanding that the installer uses grillage to fill around the pipe.


There's nothing wrong with following the code book to a tee, but you'll eventually figure out that we as plumbers have to think outside that book to what we feel is in the best interest of industry and what provides the best repair.

If we outperform the code book, we've done our jobs as plumbers to protect the health of the nation. If we live by "well if it's not in the codebook, it must be okay" theory, then you don't understand the logic of how and why that book was created to begin with.....


It's an ongoing process of changes and revisions, certain products worked for a while until age changed that line of thinking, graduated to its removal or limited uses in the plumbing system that provides longevity without premature failure.

Yeah, something like that.

RUGGED said:

Yeah, something like that.

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You really said a mouthful. Like I said I do use banded fittings, just wondering about the inspectors view point. Hope he comes back to this.

If you stand behind your work, you will go out of business without using rugged's wisdom.

As far as the IRC is concerned, it does not specifically address Fernco to the best of my knowledge.

There is a Legacy report that gives them approval for use as far as IRC is concerned.

The Legacy report states the above ground use of the Ferco is subject to the approval of the inspector/AHJ. This makes it subjective which is not good.

I personally don't have a problem with them, especially for the vent portion.

If an IRC inspector wants to get technical, he can use P3002.3.1 of the IRC to disallow the use of a Fernco.