Polybutylene (PB) advice for new condo purchase

Hello,

I am in the process of purchasing a new townhome-style condo. I have gone as far as signing a purchase agreement, and I just hired an inspector that looked at the house over the weekend. He noticed that there is Qest polybutylene pipe connected to the hot and cold lines on the water heater in the basement, and it runs up into the ceiling from there. I can only assume that the PB pipe exists elsewhere in the house as well. This condo was built in 1990.

I have read many negative things about PB, and most places on the internet seem to recommend replacing it completely or not purchasing a home with PB. There is a billion dollar class action lawsuit to cover replacing PB in homes that had a PB-related leak:
http://www.pbpipe.com/notice_short.htm
http://www.pbpipe.com/notice_long.htm

I have also heard stories of insurance companies denying claims due to PB pipe problems. I have asked a couple local plumbers for their opinion on PB pipe, although I believe they are hesitant to tell me not to get the place or that all the pipe should be replaced, as these are the same plumbers that installed this type of pipe 15+ years ago and they may be worried about liability.

Does anyone have any experience with PB pipe, either that it is a decent product and should be reliable, or that it is prone to leaks and breaks without warning?

I'm also thinking the seller of the condo should have listed this on the disclosure form. I have already spent $450 on an inspection and radon test, and $300 for the bank to have an appraisal done. If she disclosed the PB pipe to begin with, I likely never would have taken it this far. I now have to let her know by tomorrow whether or not I want to back out of the agreement or have it modified.

Here is a pic of the two PB pipes that I could see:


Thanks!

PB is prone to leaking without notice. She may have never had a leak or problem with it but if the whole condo complex has it then surely others have had a problem.

She may or may not know of the problem with PB, based on how long she has lived there.

Personally I would never purchase any dwelling that had PB regardless of the track record of that home, unless a substantial $$$ amount was deducted from the value to cover a complete re pipe and repair of the walls and ceilings.

Wasn't the problem with PB mainly the connectors, or am I wrong again? I do remember a pic of the inside of the pipe flaking due to clorniated water.

Rancher

I have PB in my floor for hydronic heating, not under pressure...

Pb

The class action suit is almost over and your condo is outside the parameters for replacement because it was done before June 1995, or at the earliest June '94.

There's a group of condos that was done in QEST-PEX that they keep having breaks, everywhere. There's only one plumbing company that's willing to do the repairs and they are going up and over with PEX to bypass the problems. Static pressure is 74 psi, not low but nearing high.

The condo association will NOT cover the repairs because a class action lawsuit has started and they will not repair the lines due to acceptance of liability concerns. This is in Campbell County, Kentucky.

I know the service plumber that works for the company that has to do all the repairs.

If it was me and my purchase of the above said condo, and I didn't know plumbing......I'd walk away from it and let the bank repo it. Those repipes are coming in around $6000 but you have to consider how expensive (most times emergency visits by the plumber) when that stuff breaks. The service tech said usually a $220 charge, minimum.

Pb

Where I live, most of the trailers and pre-fab homes have PB. I get a lot of service calls on them. They are simple to repair using "flex pex" and compression fittings. The problem is getting to the leak. I've had to cut floors, walls, move cabinets, lie in cramped crawl spaces, etc. just to get to the failed connections.

OK - thanks for the replies! I think I am going to play it safe and back out of the deal, unless the seller is willing to pay a large portion of the cost to rip out all the PB and put new copper pipe in. Going back tonight to grab some more pics. I may also try to get an estimate from a couple local plumbers. The plumbers I've already talked to, though, have never done a PB repipe project before, and have never been asked to do that. There also don't seem to be any repipe specialists around me. I'm located in Cleveland, OH...they must not have used a whole lot of PB around here compared to other parts of the country.

repipeing poly

We did a re-pipe poly house a few years ago.....

a 500k home .......

changed out all the water lines up tothe second floor and
all the way down into the crawl space...
also changed out the tub faceuts to delta 3 of them..

total damages racked up to about $5800...

it did not feel like enough....

if you like the house and they are eager to sell
just get her to cough up enough to totally re-do the home

or run away and be glad you spent the 450 for an instpection

Pb

Most PB repipers use either PEX or CPVC in order to keep the costs down, and make the installation a bit easier. The Plastic Claims Group, which handles the class action suit may be able to give you the name of their local repiper. Since that is often all they do they have become quite good at it and should be able to give the best price.