What to do... old water softener or new

[701_Fargo]

New property had existing water softener, not sure if it works. Had to change out water lines that froze when vacant. Now need to put things back together.

I need to get water sample tested... but should we try to reuse the old softener, or buy new

this is the info on the back side... I can get more photos later today

 

[701_Fargo]

Well water... typically very hard in area and manganese, too. Water test will give more info

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

From the model number, appears to be a 10" X 54" tank which will usually signify 1.5 ft3 of resin.

I suspect the valve is a Fleck 5600, but can't be certain until you photo the front. If so, good valve.

If the water lines froze, it's likely that the softener has also which may have compromised parts of it.

Whether or not that size softener will be appropriate will depend on various factors including the lab test results including hardness, iron & manganese levels, pH, the number of residents, and the plumbing diameter.

 

[ditttohead]

NTLWATERTEST

Use the link above, get the well standard, excellent test!

5600 Econominder, very 80's valve, excellent and easy to maintain. You could likely keep it going for 20-30 years without too much trouble.

 

[701_Fargo]

Ok... got water testing results

arsenic is 4.37 ug/L I know that under 10 is good so don’t need to worry about that

Total hardness 357 mg/L as CaCO3
Iron .97 mg/L
Manganese .47 mg/L

so... what do these numbers mean for a water softener system?

If the water is allowed to settle like in the toilet, it turns black. We knew we would need a prefilter and got that canister on the line, but have not installed a softener or hot water heater yet. This is a vacation house, but we now want to put it together ASAP as it is summer.

Can we service the old water softener and reuse?

I took a picture of the front side of softener valve ( after I realized it had a simple pull off cover). It is sitting in the garage while we do renovations

 

[701_Fargo]

I didn’t think to get PH tested!

it is a lake vacation house, so can have from 2 to 8 people staying at any given time in the summer. I don’t think there will be a lot of showers, so water mostly used for flushing the toilet and using kitchen sink. For your sake let’s just say that 4 people would be a reasonable number in the household

Water line is 1”

 

[Reach4]

You have a Fleck Econominder. Yes, you can clean and reuse. How big is the tank? 10x54 inches? 9x48? Also, open the back and see what the salt setting is set to.

I would treat the resin with Iron Out.

For calculating where to put the white dot on the softener, how many people are usually using the water when you occupy the cabin? This is to decide on the "reserve" gallons needed.


==========prototype cleaning resin with Iron Out procedure attempt================
A way to use Iron Out crystals to treat your resin periodically to deal with iron. This is not an authoritative procedure, but it should be pretty good.

A softener is not the best way to deal with significant iron, but it can be economical or cash-flow positive.

1.Dissolve 1/4 to 1/2 cup of Iron Out crystals into maybe 1 or 2 gallons of warm water.(X1: option -- maybe up the dose) Pour this into the brine tank, possibly down the brine tube. Agitate if you can.

2. Let this sit for 2 hours to 2 weeks. (X2 option: move the salt aside if the salt is shallow to expose liquid, and pour the IO into the liquid.

3. Start a regeneration. Usually after backwash, the brine draw cycle starts. Get to brine draw however it happens. Let the brine get drawn until the the brine tank is almost drawn. (X2) Alternatively monitor the drain line with a TDS meter, and look for a big increase in TDS. At that point, stop the flow of water with the bypass valve. That will let the solution sit in contact with the resin.

4. Let the solution sit in the resin for a time. That time (X3) might be an hour or might be 4 hours.

5a alternative: With an electronic timer, the cycling will continue while the water is off. However since the water is blocked, the solution says in contact with the resin. Then do a full regeneration to get the solution all cleaned out.

5b alternative: If you have an electromechanical valve, you can unplug the softener, and the softener will hold in the midst of the BD cycle. After you turn the water on, brine draw will continue, and you can slowly let the brine+IO interact with the resin for maybe 30 minutes. Turn the power back on, and the regen will continue and complete. That will get more efficiency out of the solution.

Note: various old posts have tried to describe a procedure, and I have tried to assimilate those. Go ahead and criticize this procedure. Different views can be helpful in tweaking a procedure. Or better yet, point to a writeup of the procedure that you like better.

There is not just one right way.
The X1, X2, etc are reference places to assist comment on times etc.

 

[701_Fargo]

I am sure the tank is taller than 4 feet...so it must be the 10”x54”

 

[Reach4]

People?

 

[701_Fargo]

For the sake of conversation... what is a better way to deal with iron hardness that is not unreasonably expensive?

 

[701_Fargo]

People?

You asked how big the tank is...

or are you wanting me to clarify the number of people using? Let’s go with 4

 

[Reach4]

Various methods to remove iron and Mn before the softener might call for backwash at 8 gpm or more. Can your well and pump do that? Got plenty of space? An extra $1200 or so could let you pre-treat the water before the softener, plus maybe $400-500 for a plumber to install if not DIY.

I would try the Iron Out treatment and cleaning.

You could also clean out the brine tank. Maybe wait until the salt level is low.

 

[Reach4]

I missed the 2...6 the first time. Anyway, with 4, I am allowing for 240 gallons of reserve.

Open the back panel of the control, and set the salt dose to 12.

Then pull out the clear dial, and move the number at white dot to be by 950 or 975 gallons. Your white dot is at 1025 right now.

Then once the count-down hits zero, the softener will regenerate at 2 am. There will be 240 gallons of reserve to tide you over. If you think you don't need that much reserve, you can set higher. If you don't move the number, you don't have as much reserve. So my calculations are fairly close to what the unit is set to now. Come to think of it, if the salt dose is 15 as the label says, then we are really close. Maybe no change needed.

Cleaning the injector and injector screen is probably a good idea. Not hard. If you have trouble finding the service manual, let us know.

And on people, I had missed the 2...6 statement.

 

[701_Fargo]

Various methods to remove iron and Mn before the softener might call for backwash at 8 gpm or more. Can your well and pump do that? Got plenty of space?

short answer is “no”

 

[Reach4]

short answer is “no”

There ya go. The cheaper solution is the winner for non-money reasons too, I think.

Adding Iron Out or citric acid to the brine tank regularly will also help. Citric acid smells better. There are also dispensers that wick phosphoric acid into the brine tank, but since your use is more sporadic, that is probably not your better choice. The iron handling salts have citric acid in them, but its probably cheaper to add your own.

 

[701_Fargo]

How much water do I add to the brine tank? I am sure there is a formula...

 

[701_Fargo]

We do buy the Morton Iron out salt... I didn’t know before this conversation that it had citric acid...

 

[Bannerman]

With the amount of iron and manganese, suggest keeping the 15 lb salt setting as the additional brine created will assist to remove I & M accumulation from the resin media.

1 gallon water will dissolve 3 lbs salt. For a 15 lb salt setting, add 5 gallons + an additional 1/2 gallon to the tank initially using a bucket. The additional 1/2 gallon is to compensate for some water that will remain within the tank following each Brine Draw cycle.

Knowing pH would have been useful as water with pH less than 7.0 will be acidic which will assist to reduce the amount of iron from accumulating on the resin, and would also reduce the amount of iron cleaning product required.

The amount of acid in iron out salt is more of a maintenance dose to reduce the amount of accumulation, not prevent it. Periodic resin cleaning with an acid cleaner is recommended.