Water level in brine tank vs float tube

[dunkinidaho]

the water level in the float tube is 4 inches higher than the level in the brine tank. Is that OK?

the float itself should be 6 inches above the water in the float tube. Is that correct?

If the float is high will a brine draw happen or will the high float prevent a brine draw?

thanks

 

[Reach4]

the water level in the float tube is 4 inches higher than the level in the brine tank. Is that OK?

Yes.

the float itself should be 6 inches above the water in the float tube. Is that correct?

It should be above. One inch would be fine.

If the float is high will a brine draw happen or will the high float prevent a brine draw?

Brine draw should work, but I have wondered if it always works as it should.

 

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[dunkinidaho]

How would you achieve a balance between the amount of brine water used for a cycle and the amount added back in the last stage. My brine stage is 60mins and with a 5 min. refill the water level is higher than it was before the cycle. I will reduce the refill to 4 mins and see what happens. It seems that 4 mins is terribly short though.

 

[Reach4]

How would you achieve a balance between the amount of brine water used for a cycle and the amount added back in the last stage.

That should be automatic. Each brine draw should suck out all of the brine resulting from the previous fill.

My brine stage is 60mins and with a 5 min. refill the water level is higher than it was before the cycle.

The brine gets sucked out slower than the brine fill rate usually. There are different gadgets that meter the rate of each independently. Plus, when all of the brine has been sucked out, the air check valve closes to prevent sucking air.

I am not sure what you are getting at. Were you looking for help in setting up your softener, or trying to improve operation in some other way?

In most softeners, the float in the brine tube is a safety float that stops the incoming flow if something goes wrong with the metered filling of the brine tank.

 

[LLigetfa]

the float itself should be 6 inches above the water in the float tube. Is that correct?

Depends... are you talking about a high-limit float or the air check? I assume a high-limit float, the height of which depends on whether it is a timed fill.

 

[Bannerman]

I will reduce the refill to 4 mins and see what happens.

You didn't specify your softener's brand and model.

With Fleck and Clack control valves, the Brine Fill setting to be programmed is directly related to the amount of capacity to be regenerated. Reducing the Brine Fill setting for your softener will likely result in less capacity being available so you could begin to run short of soft water prior to regeneration.

 

[dunkinidaho]

settings are backwash 10min brine rinse 60 min rapid rinse 10min brine refill 5min. gallons used between regen 600 42,000 grain tank 2 people in the home. I don't know the iron count..
Problem is there is always more water in the brine tank after a regen than there was to start. I siphon off the excess water after a regen to get the water level below the float. The float shuts off the water during the refill stage when it rises with the water level. If the water isn't siphoned off to get the float to drop then the next regen will not happen as the meter can't draw brine through a check valve that's closed.

 

[Bannerman]

Your control valve is a Fleck 5600 and the digital controller is an SE version.

There should be a label located nearby to the brine tube connection that will specify the BLFC (brine line flow control) flow rate. That is the brine tank fill rate. The BLFC rate X the Brine Fill setting minutes will determine the quantity of water programmed to enter the brine tank. Most 5600 valves will be equipped with a 0.5 GPM BLFC, but a 1 GPM flow restrictor may have been installed so with 5 minutes BF, 5 gallons will be entering the brine tank which will dissolve 15 lbs salt when the safety float is not stopping inflow. The safety float height may need to be adjusted or, the amount of water currently programmed to enter may be too much. To determine which, additional info will be needed.

You said your softener has a 42,000 grain tank but that is an unusual Capacity amount. Is that the Capacity that is programmed in the controller? If the tank size or model number is not indicated on the resin tank, measure the tank"s circumference and height so we may estimate the total capacity so as to specify appropriate program settings.

Is your water source municipal or private well? If municipal, there will be no ferous iron to be removed by the softener. If a private well, a lab test report will be needed to determine competing ions such as iron and manganese which will also consume softening capacity in addition to actual hardness.

A lab test report for well water should specify the actual hardness whereas with a municipal supply, water hardness needs to be determined at your location as the city will typically state an average hardness amount from all sources combined. To measure hardness, a Hach 5B Total Hardness Test kit is recommended.

 

[dunkinidaho]

10in. diameter 32in. circumference tank 44in tall. 0.5gpm BLCF private well BLCF of 0.5 x 5min refill= 2.5gal.

We have sold the house and are moving in October. I am trying to get this fixed as I don't believe the new owner is handy and would likely incur a large bill from the local water treatment company. That is if they service only what they sell. I haven't minded fussing with it for 14 years. It did have a new resin bed last year.

 

[Bannerman]

A softener containing 1 ft3 of resin will typically utilize a 9" X 48" tank whereas 10" X 54" is appropriate for 1.5 ft3. I suspect your 44" tank will contain 1.25 ft3 which will have a total softening capacity of only 40,000 grains, not 42,000 grains. To regenerate all 40K grains requires 25 lbs salt each cycle which is highly inefficient.

To improve efficiency while providing reasonable capacity and good quality soft water, a usable Capacity setting of 30,000 grains is recommended. To regenerate 30K usable capacity, 10 lbs salt would be needed will will result in a harness reduction efficiency of (30,000 / 10 =) 3,000 grains per lb.

You did not specify your water's hardness amount. If for example, the actual hardness is 25 gpg with no iron or manganese, 30,000 grains usable capacity / 25 gpg = 1,200 gallons capacity per regeneration cycle. Available capacity displayed will be slightly less depending on the Reserve settings programmed.

 

[Bannerman]

As you calculated 2.5 gallons is programmed to enter the brine tank, that amount will dissolve only 7.5 lbs salt which is insufficient to regenerate 30K grains capacity. As you said the softener is 14 years old, I suspect the valve will require new seals, spacers, piston and brine valve. When these wearable components become worn, that commonly results in unpredictable behaviour including water flow into the brine tank at inappropriate times or, fill not shutting off according to the BF setting.

As it seems you are mechanically minded, rebuilding the 5600 should be a straight forward process for you to perform yourself. There are numerous videos in YT that may be utilized as a guide.

 

[dunkinidaho]

I have the gallons per regen set at 600. That may be too low. At this point I would just like the brine used in a regen cycle be equal to the refill amount. I am sure I don't have the skills to do this correctly. I hate to leave the water softener to the new owner in a "not working" properly condition.

 

[Bannerman]

The 5600SE for water softener applications will be equipped with a flow meter. With appropriate Capacity, Brine Fill Hardness and Reserve settings programmed, the controller will initiate regeneration only when the programmed capacity has been consumed. When there is significant iron or manganese, depending on the quantity of each, regeneration may be restricted by utilizing the controler's Day Override setting which will force regeneration every so many days even as the capacity has not been depleted.

Since you have been using the softener for 14 years, unless the safety float adjustment height is unusually low within the Brine Well, it sounds as though the safety float being raised on fill has only recently started ocuring. As such, I suspect much more than 2.5 gallons will be entering the brine tank which is why I recommended to rebuild the valve.

 

[LLigetfa]

I suspect your brine draw is too weak and so it does not draw all of the brine which explains having more brine after each regen. Have you cleaned the venturi?