Unorthodox Pump Control?

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RSquirrel

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I have a 1-hp submersible pump (inlet 246 ft. down from wellhead, static water level 165 ft. down) that pumps water through a check-valve to a holding tank 165 ft. above the well head (via an open-ended feed pipe at top of tank). It was controlled by a float switch in the holding tank, but the conductors between the float and the pump panel have become compromised somewhere in the 1000 foot plus, conduit run, requiring visual tank level monitoring and manual control of the pump. Pulling new wires is not feasible.

Somebody suggested extending the feed pipe outlet to the bottom of the tank (introducing a small static pressure in the pipe that varies with tank level). I’ve pretty much dismissed that idea, as the small (~3 psi) fluctuation would require an extremely sensitive/repeatable/low-hysteresis pressure switch that may not even exist. Plus, the bottom feed would tend to stir up sediment each time the pump runs.

I am aware of the wireless transmitter/receiver concept, but I’d like to avoid the huge expense associated with that system.

Is there some way to turn the pump on/off by utilizing a bladder tank/pressure switch at the wellhead? Since the feed pipe dumps water into the air space in the tank, I suspect the answer is no, but maybe there is some magic outside-the-box method that I’m not visualizing.
 

Valveman

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Just use your float switch to open/close an electric solenoid valve like a sprinkler valve. Then at the well have a pressure tank/pressure switch/CSV control so the pump comes on when water is used and goes off when the electric valve closes.
 

Reach4

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How compromised is your wiring? Depending, you may have an alternative of using the wire to control a relay at the pump area.

For example, if the two wires are shorted together, or if one wire is broken, you still may be able to reliably carry a low voltage control. You could use the conduit as part of a low voltage low power control voltage path.

If the wire is open or shorted at an unknown place, note there is equipment that may be able to figure out how far down the wire the discontinuity is.

This is not to say that measuring the pressure at the wellhead won't do a fine job for you.
 

RSquirrel

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How compromised is your wiring? Depending, you may have an alternative of using the wire to control a relay at the pump area.

For example, if the two wires are shorted together, or if one wire is broken, you still may be able to reliably carry a low voltage control. You could use the conduit as part of a low voltage low power control voltage path.

If the wire is open or shorted at an unknown place, note there is equipment that may be able to figure out how far down the wire the discontinuity is.

This is not to say that measuring the pressure at the wellhead won't do a fine job for you.


Thanks, but unfortunately, the conduit is PVC.
 

RSquirrel

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Just use your float switch to open/close an electric solenoid valve like a sprinkler valve. Then at the well have a pressure tank/pressure switch/CSV control so the pump comes on when water is used and goes off when the electric valve closes.

Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. Just one question, though: Since the submersible well pump (1 hp Goulds 10GS10412) has nothing to do with instantaneous demand (it only fills the tank, another pump provides house pressure), why do I need a Cycle Stop Valve?
 

Reach4

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Thanks, but unfortunately, the conduit is PVC.
How many conductors are in the conduit? You could use a couple ground rods for the low power control signal if it came to that.
 

RSquirrel

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How many conductors are in the conduit? You could use a couple ground rods for the low power control signal if it came to that.

That's an interesting solution. Just for my education, would two ground rods 1000+ feet apart still provide reliable continuity?

Anyway, to answer your question, there are (were) two 14AWG THHN's in the conduit. But there's no point in wasting your time with an alternate solution utilizing the existing conductors - trust me, it's not an option. But thanks for your input and assistance.
 

Reach4

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That's an interesting solution. Just for my education, would two ground rods 1000+ feet apart still provide reliable continuity?
Pretty sure, even in a dry desert. I think I would go with a DC voltage and reverse the polarity to distinguish on vs off.
 

Valveman

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Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for. Just one question, though: Since the submersible well pump (1 hp Goulds 10GS10412) has nothing to do with instantaneous demand (it only fills the tank, another pump provides house pressure), why do I need a Cycle Stop Valve?

You have a 10 GPM pump. As long as there is not enough restriction in the line to the storage tank to make the pump put out less than 10 GPM, the pump will stay on while filling the storage tank and you can use a regular 40 gallon size pressure tank without a CSV. But if your pump is producing more than you can get to the storage tank, the pump will cycle on and off while filling the storage tank, and that is not a good thing.

With a CSV you could use a little 4.5 gallon size pressure tank and the CSV will restrict the pump output to match the storage tank input. The CSV will make the pump run continuously while filling the storage tank as long as it is taking more than 1 GPM. The CSV is just a way to make the well pump take anything you throw at it. If you get everything set up perfectly, you don't need a CSV, but it is not a perfect world.
 
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