Transition IPS to What Material In Basement?

[NIS240SHU]

Hi everyone,

In the process of changing my well pump a couple of weeks ago, I also removed an air-over-water pressure tank and the galvanized pipe that fed it.

I was left with only about 2 inches of galvanized pipe sticking through my block foundation wall. That pipe is predictably rusting from the inside and I found that the connection I made to new IPS pipe is seeping a bit.

In the Spring, I'll dig up the existing galvanized pipe and replace it with 1" IPS.

Regardless, I hate the IPS pipe in the basement and want to convert to something else. I plan to renovate the basement to enclose this piping. I do plan to have an access door for the connection into the basement just in case.

Question #1: What is the preferred material once I get into the house? My preferred options are PEX-A or copper.

Question #2: Should I convert to 1" at the point of entry? I know that to maintain the equivalent size of the 1" IPS, I'd have to step up to 1-1/4" PEX-A or copper. However, if I do that, I think I'm set on copper because I can either sweat it or use ProPress. It'll just make framing a bit more difficult.

Question #3: What is the best way to support the IPS at the outside and/or inside of the wall? I was thinking I could use some sort of flange screwed to the foundation.

Thanks for any insights.

 

[Reach4]

In the Spring, I'll dig up the existing galvanized pipe and replace it with 1" IPS.

My old 1-1/4 galvanized has 3/4 SIDR pipe run thru the old galvanized. I think it was a straight shot -- no elbow. That is probably good for over 10 gpm.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[NIS240SHU]

Thanks, Reach4. If that's the case, then I'll make my life easier and just go to 1" PEX-A or copper once it's through the wall.

I'll use 1" IPS from the well head to the house because I still have plenty left over from my pump replacement project.

Now I just need to figure out a good way to mount and seal at the wall. I know I'm overthinking this part.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Reach4]

I presume there is not groundwater leaking in where the existing steel pipe enters the basement. So you are looking to prevent water from coming between the steel and the new plastic pipe.

Sealing should be done at the outside part more than the inside. See https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/sleeve-sealant.91118/ #2.

1-1/4 inch steel pipe is 1.660 inch OD and maybe 1.38 ID but allow for roughness etc.

SIDR pipe fits on standard barbs, so does not need fancy connectors.​

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​	​	SIDR 7​	250 psi​	​	SIDR 9​	200 psi​	​	SIDR 11.5​	160 psi​	​
nom size​	ID​	min Thickness​	weight lb/ft​	Computed OD​	min Thickness​	weight lb/ft​	Computed OD​	min Thickness​	weight lb/ft​	Computed OD​
½​	0.622​	0.089​	0.09​	0.800​	0.069​	0.07​	0.760​	0.06​	0.06​	0.742​
¾​	0.824​	0.118​	0.15​	1.060​	0.092​	0.12​	1.008​	0.072​	0.09​	0.968​
1​	1.049​	0.15​	0.25​	1.349​	0.117​	0.19​	1.283​	0.091​	0.14​	1.231​
1¼​	1.38​	0.197​	0.43​	1.774​	0.153​	0.33​	1.686​	0.12​	0.25​	1.620​
1½​	1.61​	0.23​	0.59​	2.070​	0.179​	0.44​	1.968​	0.14​	0.34​	1.890​
2​	2.067​	0.295​	0.97​	2.657​	0.23​	0.73​	2.527​	0.18​	0.56​	2.427​

1. Numbers from https://www.jmeagle.com/sites/default/files/jme_PEWaterandSewer.pdf S.I.D.R. PRESSURE PIPE ASTM D2239
2. Computed OD from average ID + (2 * Minimum thickness), so allow a little more for actual OD.

So you might be able to use 1 inch SIDR 11.5 if galvanized is smooth enough. Lubrication with liquid dish soap or lube such as Oatey® All Purpose Pipe Lubricant should help. You could also look into IPS or CTS sized pipe, and get the corresponding compression connectors. In that case, I would check with your local supply house for pipe and connectors that are matched to each other. One-inch CTS should be 1.125 OD. You might even be able to shove 1 inch CPVC pipe thru the old galvanized. PEX is CTS, so maybe 1 inch PEX would fit well. Connections for that are readily available and cheap.

I find IPS and SIDR to be similar for some wall sizes, but intrinsically SIDR (Standard Inside Dimension Ratio) is made to fit on barbs.

For mounting, I am picturing that the pipe passing thru the galvanized would go to a tee or elbow. Then you would clamp the pipe downstream of the first fitting. This would minimize how far into the basement the pipe protrudes.

 

[NIS240SHU]

I presume there is not groundwater leaking in where the existing steel pipe enters the basement. So you are looking to prevent water from coming between the steel and the new plastic pipe.

Sealing should be done at the outside part more than the inside. See https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/sleeve-sealant.91118/ #2.

1-1/4 inch steel pipe is 1.660 inch OD and maybe 1.38 ID but allow for roughness etc.

SIDR pipe fits on standard barbs, so does not need fancy connectors.​

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​

​

​	​	SIDR 7​	250 psi​	​	SIDR 9​	200 psi​	​	SIDR 11.5​	160 psi​	​
nom size​	ID​	min Thickness​	weight lb/ft​	Computed OD​	min Thickness​	weight lb/ft​	Computed OD​	min Thickness​	weight lb/ft​	Computed OD​
½​	0.622​	0.089​	0.09​	0.800​	0.069​	0.07​	0.760​	0.06​	0.06​	0.742​
¾​	0.824​	0.118​	0.15​	1.060​	0.092​	0.12​	1.008​	0.072​	0.09​	0.968​
1​	1.049​	0.15​	0.25​	1.349​	0.117​	0.19​	1.283​	0.091​	0.14​	1.231​
1¼​	1.38​	0.197​	0.43​	1.774​	0.153​	0.33​	1.686​	0.12​	0.25​	1.620​
1½​	1.61​	0.23​	0.59​	2.070​	0.179​	0.44​	1.968​	0.14​	0.34​	1.890​
2​	2.067​	0.295​	0.97​	2.657​	0.23​	0.73​	2.527​	0.18​	0.56​	2.427​

1. Numbers from https://www.jmeagle.com/sites/default/files/jme_PEWaterandSewer.pdf S.I.D.R. PRESSURE PIPE ASTM D2239
2. Computed OD from average ID + (2 * Minimum thickness), so allow a little more for actual OD.

So you might be able to use 1 inch SIDR 11.5 if galvanized is smooth enough. Lubrication with liquid dish soap or lube such as Oatey® All Purpose Pipe Lubricant should help. You could also look into IPS or CTS sized pipe, and get the corresponding compression connectors. In that case, I would check with your local supply house for pipe and connectors that are matched to each other. One-inch CTS should be 1.125 OD. You might even be able to shove 1 inch CPVC pipe thru the old galvanized. PEX is CTS, so maybe 1 inch PEX would fit well. Connections for that are readily available and cheap.

I find IPS and SIDR to be similar for some wall sizes, but intrinsically SIDR (Standard Inside Dimension Ratio) is made to fit on barbs.

For mounting, I am picturing that the pipe passing thru the galvanized would go to a tee or elbow. Then you would clamp the pipe downstream of the first fitting. This would minimize how far into the basement the pipe protrudes.

Thanks for that, but based on what I saw inside the existing pipe, there's no way I'd be able to push new PEX through. Digging is in my future. But that's OK, there's a lot of collateral work that needs to be done in the area as well.

Thanks again.

 

[Reach4]

Thanks for that, but based on what I saw inside the existing pipe, there's no way I'd be able to push new PEX through. Digging is in my future. But that's OK, there's a lot of collateral work that needs to be done in the area as well.

Thanks again.

How far of run were you picturing? 25 ft to get you from near the well into the basement, or 5 ft to get you from near the foundation into the basement?

Also, there are pipe interior cleaning methods. But first, you will want to measure the pipe OD with your digital/vernier caliper, or a piece of string.

 

[Bannerman]

High Density black Polyethylene (SIDR) pipe is generally utilized between a submersible well pump and the pressure tank. Assuming your pressure tank/pressure switch is located in your basement, then the polypipe will usually connect to one side of the tank Tee, and the house piping will connect to the opposite side of the Tee, thereby making the tank Tee the transition point.

Duct Seal is generally the preferred product for sealing wall penetrations for electrical conduits, water pipes and exhaust vents. DS is a soft clay like product which will adhere to a vast amount of surfaces, and can be formed by hand into a rope, similar to plasticine. The rope is then easily molded into the transition around the pipe, adhering to both the pipe and wall surfaces. DS is usually available in the electrical department of HD and other building/electrical suppliers.

If your pipe penetration is below grade, since you will need to dig anyway, suggest digging down fully to your foundation drainage tile/pipe. This will permit the entire vertical column to be filled with washed gravel, thereby creating a path for the water in the surrounding soil to drain without building pressure against that section of foundation wall where the penetration is located.

To further ensure unrestricted drainage, you could also install a vertical section of perforated drainage pipe before installing the gravel. The vertical pipe would be capped at the top to prevent gravel/debris/critter entry. The bottom of the vertical section may not necessarily need to be connected directly to the foundation drainage pipe, but using a 'Y' fitting to make that connection, would permit the perimeter drain pipe to be power flushed in the future if needed as removal of the top cap would provide an access point, and the 'Y' connection will ensure a power flush nozzle will be directed in one direction into the horizontal drain pipe surrounding the foundation.

 

[Jeff H Young]

just wondering how you determined that 1 inch copper isnt equivilant to 1 inch ips ? or that 1 inch pex wont flow what your requirement is of cource the pex is a bit smaller but is your 1 inch old galvinized undersized too , Im thinking differance isnt much and copper would flow superior to galvinized pipe you must be amidst flow problems with 1 inch gal but didnt say that?