Toilet flange on tile over concrete

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Djarchow

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When the plumbers installed the PVC toilet train pipe in our basement floor before the concrete was poured, they used one of the Harvey red vinyl closet bend spacers to keep the concrete away from the pipe. Spacer

When my tile guy was setting the tile, the top of the vinyl spacer was a bit too high, so he just cut the whole top off below the concrete. I think you are supposed to cut out the center of the top and screw the flange into the vinyl. So now I am not sure what to screw the flange into. Here is a picture:


toilet flange.jpg

Since the drain pipe is somewhat off center in the spacer I have one, maybe two spots I could drill into the concrete and secure the flange with a tapcon but most of the screws would miss the concrete. To fix this, I thought about using one of the metal floor repair plates you use when a wood subfloor is rotted out as that looks like all the holes would hit concrete. I welcome any other suggestions for fixing this.

Thanks!
 
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Reach4

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The important part of your photo seems to out of focus. Maybe hold the phone closer, and take that closet flange out of the photo.
 

Jeff H Young

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ask the plumber and tile guy what they had in plan? id rip that stuff outta there set ring stick bent screws in the holes and fill with a strong mortar
 

Djarchow

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ask the plumber and tile guy what they had in plan? id rip that stuff outta there set ring stick bent screws in the holes and fill with a strong mortar
Jeff, thanks for the reply. The plumber was there 20 years ago when the house was built and is long out of business. I am just getting around to finishing the basement. Tile guy said to just glue the flange to the pipe, and bed the outside in silicone. Here is the repair bracket I am considering since I can just screw this through the tile into the concrete and then screw the flange to the bracket.
toilet repair bracket.jpg
 

Reach4

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That repair device does not seem to have a way of screwing the closet flange down. If you could get a closet flange in place held only by glue or compression, maybe you could put a Danco Hydroseat above that to take the hold-down force. But a repair ring with ears could also let you provide hold down force.

How far down is the top of the pipe from the level of the surface of the floor?

I don't think it was the intention to "screw the flange into the vinyl". It seems strange there are not more instructions on what it is they intend you to do.
 

Djarchow

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That repair device does not seem to have a way of screwing the closet flange down. If you could get a closet flange in place held only by glue or compression, maybe you could put a Danco Hydroseat above that to take the hold-down force. But a repair ring with ears could also let you provide hold down force.

How far down is the top of the pipe from the level of the surface of the floor?

I don't think it was the intention to "screw the flange into the vinyl". It seems strange there are not more instructions on what it is they intend you to do.
Reach,

Thanks for the reply. You are correct on not screwing into the vinyl. The 'instructions/pictures' on the spacer made me assume that since they only have you cut out the center where the pipe comes though. But the spacer is 6" in diameter which is the same diameter as the screw holes in the flange. So there is no concrete to screw into, and no vinyl. So they must be assuming there is a subfloor over the concrete.

The top of the pipe is flush with the concrete, so roughly 1/2" below the surface of the tile.

As for the repair plate you need to drill holes into the metal plate to line up with your flange screw holes; then secure the flange to the plate with the screws they provide. I would have to drill through the plate, then mark and drill through the tile.
 

Reach4

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Functionally, no difference, but screw hole centers are 6.125 inches.

I am surprised the OD would be a full 6 inches.
 

Jeff H Young

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you could bolt flange to the plate befor gluing on. Id proibebly just do as I outlined a couple good screws plus pouring that mortar would work. shoulda been adressed sooner but floor guys dont care they arent coming back one day job I guess
 

Djarchow

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ask the plumber and tile guy what they had in plan? id rip that stuff outta there set ring stick bent screws in the holes and fill with a strong mortar
Jeff, I pulled the red vinyl and foam out of the hole. Still weighing my options but if I do fill in with concrete or mortar as you suggest what would you use? I assume you don't mean thinset? By the time I wrap the pipe with foam so can leave space for my 3" hub flange I will only have maybe 1/2" in some spots so whatever I use will have be fairly thin.

Thanks again!
 

Reach4

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Mortar made with mortar mix would be the common choice, I think.
 

Chucky_ott

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I'm confused. If you removed the red vinyl, foam, thinset, and whatever else was in there, do you now have a 1/2" space around the entire ABS pipe? If so, wouldn't you use a regular flange that you glue with ABS solvent?
 

Reach4

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I'm confused. If you removed the red vinyl, foam, thinset, and whatever else was in there, do you now have a 1/2" space around the entire ABS pipe? If so, wouldn't you use a regular flange that you glue with ABS solvent?
Djarchow needs something to hold the ring (should be stainless if gluing) down. Thus needs something for screws to bite into.
 

Chucky_ott

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Got it! I re-read post #10 and now understand his dilemma.

Can't think of a solution now but filling the gap with concrete probably would not be the best solution. I think any similar product with low tensile strength would likely crack.
 

Chucky_ott

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I think the repair plate that you suggest might be the best option.

If I wanted to do it by filling the gap, the only thing I can think of is epoxy and a thickening agent instead of concrete. But epoxy would be an expensive fix. I have a gallon on hand so it would be something I'd consider.
 

Michael Young

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When the plumbers installed the PVC toilet train pipe in our basement floor before the concrete was poured, they used one of the Harvey red vinyl closet bend spacers to keep the concrete away from the pipe. Spacer

When my tile guy was setting the tile, the top of the vinyl spacer was a bit too high, so he just cut the whole top off below the concrete. I think you are supposed to cut out the center of the top and screw the flange into the vinyl. So now I am not sure what to screw the flange into. Here is a picture:


View attachment 98471
Since the drain pipe is somewhat off center in the spacer I have one, maybe two spots I could drill into the concrete and secure the flange with a tapcon but most of the screws would miss the concrete. To fix this, I thought about using one of the metal floor repair plates you use when a wood subfloor is rotted out as that looks like all the holes would hit concrete. I welcome any other suggestions for fixing this.

Thanks
it looks like you already have marks on the concrete. Use a hammer drill. drill your holes. glue tat baby down and insert your tapcons. If you want to fill some of that space around the flange, you can always get some mortar and just fill with concrete. Using an empty caulk tube filld with mortar will make it easy to get concrete pushed into that tight space.
 

Jeff H Young

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Personally I woulda made a wet mix and stuffed bent screws down the holes in ring to bite in the mortar.
 
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