Tank Booster Pump, piping repair and reconfiguration

[CircuitsToPlowshares]

Howdy all. I was looking for some advice with possibly reconfiguring my booster pump supply configuration. I have a well and storage tank configuration setup on some property built 3 years ago that is working well enough now, but I am anticipating and preparing for setting up the supply with us building our house and wanted some advice. I had been considering some changes to the setup, and *luck* would have it that some of the piping burst in the freeze last week (Yay). So now I have a chance to review the setup and debate the changes.

--Just the facts--
Attached is my poor representation of the current setup. Basically from my 2500 gallon holding tank I have 1-1/2" supply line going to a goulds Irri-gator GT-15 high volume 1-1/2 HP pump. This leads out to a union then a brass ball valve and check valve done in 120 schedule pipe threaded into the fittings. Then it transitions into glue in fittings and some schedule 40 pvc which is all burst and will need replacing. Along that line is the pressure switch, and a spigot, as well as a tee going to the 86 gallon pressure tank. I don't know if there is any damage to the pressure tank, but the pipe coming out of it is not split, only the lower line. Coming back up is the second check valve and then a supply line cutoff that splits both to the existing well house plumbing (laundry and watering) and then off to a 1-1/4" PVC line that then goes out to 1" pex supply line that was being used for temporary living spaces. This pex line will be re-done and re-run when the final house is put in.

The pump I found out was selected by our well company is a high volume but low pressure pump, it was only capable of putting out ~54psi. When the installer was setting the pressure switch he was unaware of this as well, so when we noticed it couldn't make the 60psi set point he called back to the guys in the office who made the spec on the system and they told him it was only rated to 55psi. Basically we compromised on the set points so on at 40/52. According to the spec sheet at that discharge pressure it should be close to 40gpm but I have never measured it open bore.

--Questions--
1. I am debating putting a CSV after the check valve. But I am unsure what would be best given the low set points and knowing what GPM to actually target. Any advice here?

2. I am debating if I choose a CSV to replace most of the 1-1/2" pipe between the two check valves with 1-1/4". Are there any issues with this anyone can see that I am not thinking of with having the 1-1/4" going back up to 1-1/2" before the supply? I also have thought about just eating the $60 and changing to 1-1/4" check valves as well so anything after the pump is all 1-1/4.

3. Is it worth doing threaded schedule 120 again when I re-make this? Its easy enough to do, but I don't have any dies for 1-1/4 or 1-1/2 but that is trivial to get.

4. When I run the supply to the house I will probably add a booster pump to get enough pressure to have filters and softeners and also better pressure for the house, the second pump will also probably have a CSV. For a 300' run any suggestions for sizing given the pump. And will there be any issues having the two pumps on the system?

-- After Thoughts ---
Had I have known at the time when the well installers were asking me questions about the property and said "Is this residential or agricultural?" and I said "Both" that they were going to spec out the irrigation pump I would have gone into much more detail and asked them more questions. They didn't list model numbers on our contract or I could have caught it when I reviewed the setup proposal. Mostly because my agricultural uses are not crops and I don't need high volume pump. I am sure this pump is not ideal for my future needs and the pump will probably die on me. If it does I will change it out to a more suitable booster pump when that happens, but I am not fully on board with just chucking it yet.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Valveman]

The GT15 is a good for high volume, low pressure sprinklers. However, I show it only builds 52 PSI, which means it doesn't build enough pressure to work with a 40/60 switch for a house. You really do not need two pumps. Just get a J15S pump instead and find someone who needs the GT15 to use with a pump start relay not a pressure tank.

Then with the J15S you can have as much pressure as you need. It will work up to 50/70 pressure and a CSV1A can make it deliver strong constant 60 PSI to the house and/or irrigation. The J15S only pumps 25 GPM, which should be more than you need. But the jet part makes it deliver the pressure you need for the house. At higher pressures like 50/70 I would recommend the 10 gallon size tank with the PK1A.

 

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[Valveman]

You could also use a submersible in the storage tank as a 1HP, 33 HPM Hallmark would pump as much water as the J15S and cost a lot less.

 

[CircuitsToPlowshares]

Thanks Cary.

I think I will go with the J15S as the solution it seems like a better long term solution and most compatible with my current float system that I like. I will just reduce the tank feeder line just before the pump down to 1-1/4, and replace all of the rest of the piping with 1-1/4. So it looks like a few online dealers have the J15S for ~$600, vs the MAP catalog price of 1200, any reason not to trust that price-point?

I can do the CSV1A, and you are recommending the 60psi setpoint on that, with the pressure switch set to 50/70?

-Thanks

 

[Valveman]

Yes the J15S can do 50/70 so set the CSV1A at 60 PSI and you won't even need soap in the shower. Lol! And yes, $598 shows to be a good price on that J15S. If your using an existing large pressure tank you can plumb it like this.

 

[CircuitsToPlowshares]

Thanks again. I got it all piped back up and running without having to re-run too much of it. I don't run pipe everyday so its not the prettiest out there but it appears leak free after 2 days at pressure. I had to take the pressure switch off of the J15S that it shipped with, and move the plug from my G15 to get the setup complete. My only (2) surprises were

1. The amount of rust which came from the existing GT15 that had settled in the bottom of the split line was way more than I would have expected after 3 years. There was a noticeable layer in the pipe that was 1/16" thick at the bottom. The inside of the pump, and all of the screw on fittings were pitted. Even though its cast iron body I hadn't expected that since our water is alkaline with a ton of carbonate.

2. I guess I knew how the CSV worked by limiting the flow rate above pressure setpoint to maintain a constant pressure but I got worried how long it took once the demand water was turned off to go from the 60 psi to 70psi. Without the CSV it would do this in 30seconds to a minute, but with the CSV it was over 5 minutes and just seemed like that poor pump was struggling by the sound of it. Couple that with new pump heating up and that wonderful magic smoke smell had me worried the first time. Everything seems good and I think its just probably packing and manufacturing oils on the windings and brushes working their way off. Its the downside of spending most of my days in an electronics lab that anytime I smell anything like that I have to worry and go check on everything.

 

[Reach4]

With a big tank, you probably want to increase that CSV to put out maybe 65 psi before it slows things.

 

[Valveman]

Like Reach says, with such a large tank set the CSV at 65 PSI, as you only want a minute or two of run time for it to get to 70 and shut off.

 

[CircuitsToPlowshares]

Thanks guys. Setup at 65 psi for the CSV and its now down to 1 minute after supply stops.

I am still curious how I got so much rust accumulation. We don't have any iron in the well water, so it must all have come from the pump. The only other factor I can think of is that once or twice I year I bring the holding tank up to 6 ppm free chlorine to sanitize the system and maybe that is too much for those pumps to handle for a few days.