Suggestions on lowering well pump

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Dave_T

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Currently in severe drought conditions, well went dry last month. Pumpsaver intervention and I put the clamp on to verify low amperage. Many neighbors are going dry too.

Well depth 900', Franklin 2hp 230v 1ph 2243019204S is currently set at 740'. Looking at historical records of local state monitored test wells, lowering our pump 40-60' would probably get us through this drought but I want to go as low as possible within reason.

- How much can I lower it with the 2hp pump? GPM absolutely does not matter, it goes into a large storage tank. It's currently at 5.1gpm, I don't care if it's a lot slower. Can I lower it to 800-860'?

- Is it a concern to have the 6/3 be spliced into three pieces? It was lowered 160' 16 years ago. 6/3 should be good to 970' on a 2hp motor if I'm reading the charts correctly.

- The Franklin 2243019204S has a date code of 6/2009 and was installed around the same time. The well has had intermittent and low useage since then, has been dry twice and has sat unused for many months, multiple times. (I think I'm answering my own question) Even though the pump works fine, I debating whether or not to swap it out for a new one. Suggestions on a pump that will run at 800-850' on 6/3 wire and be compatible with my Franklin 2823018110 control box?
 

Reach4

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You gave the part number of the motor part, and not the part number of the pump part.

If that is a 5 gpm pump, you should be good to well over 900. For a 7 gpm pump, probably. For a 10 gpm pump, no.

Is that steel pipe? Schedule 120 PVC, or what? There can be some high pressure on the lower part of the pipe.
 
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Dave_T

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You gave the part number of the motor part, and not the part number of the pump part.
I can't find the part number for the pump. But at 740' and sitting in minimal water it pumps up 5.1gpm! :)
 

Reach4

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I can't find the part number for the pump. But at 740' and sitting in minimal water it pumps up 5.1gpm! :)
So I think it could be a 5 or a 7. Cannot be sure.

You could measure the dead head pressure for a few seconds, and tell from that.

I am not a pro. And if your pipe were to break as you did the test, that would be bad. Steel or plastic?

Or just do it, and the pump does what it does. It will still give you 5.1 gpm if the water is at the same level it is at now. What the pump does is almost all related to how far down the water surface is, and not how far down the pump is.

I agree 970ft on the wire.
 
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Dave_T

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So I think it could be a 5 or a 7. Cannot be sure.

You could measure the dead head pressure for a few seconds, and tell from that.

I am not a pro. And if your pipe were to break as you did the test, that would be bad. Steel or plastic?

Or just do it, and the pump does what it does. It will still give you 5.1 gpm if the water is at the same level it is at now. What the pump does is almost all related to how far down the water surface is, and not how far down the pump is.
Can't deadhead test it, well is dry. The test from a couple months ago at 5.1gpm matches perfectly to one done eight years ago.

PVC.

From the well it gets chlorine injected, through a filter and into a 2,500 gallon tank. I don't need significant pressure or flow.
 

Valveman

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If you have more depth in the well, I would go ahead and lower it. That deep set 2HP will be fine as long as it is still pumping about 2 GPM, which is enough to keep it cool.
 

Dave_T

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If you have more depth in the well, I would go ahead and lower it. That deep set 2HP will be fine as long as it is still pumping about 2 GPM, which is enough to keep it cool.
Thanks! Was waiting for the Texan to reply!

So keep the old motor/pump and splice in new wire and call it a day? It's set at 740' now, 900' well depth. How low would you go?
 

Valveman

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Well, you gotta do what you gotta do to get water. Lowest case scenario would be to tag bottom and raise it up 10' or so. Even though the well is 900' there is usually some fill. Tagging bottom is the only way to know without pulling the pump to measure. But tagging bottom is not good and being set that low is not good. Shoving muck into the motor might plug the vent in the motor or even stop up the pump. Setting a pump that low also means it is getting water supplied from above, and the motor will not get the cooling flow it needs.

Preferable the pump is always set above the well perforations and/or water bearing formation, or it has a flow inducer (shroud) on the pump. In our area all pumps are set a couple feet off the bottom, which makes a flow inducer pretty much mandatory around here. However, that is not the case in other parts of the country with deep well like your. Even so, your pump could be set a couple feet of the bottom safely if a flow inducer is installed. I am just assuming it doesn't have one already?

You are correct #6 wire is good to 970'. The splices won't hurt much if they were done correctly.

Without a flow inducer it is always best to skim water off the top than set at the bottom. I would probably only add about 60' of pipe and stretch out the extra wire for later if needed. But I have my own truck and it is nothing to go back and add more later if needed. If expensive to get someone to do these things, you might split the difference and add a 100' of pipe.

Also, if the pump is so deep it is restricted to 2 GPM the Pumpsaver may think it is out of water. You might need something more sensitive and adjustable like the Cycle Sensor if that happens.

Edit. Forgot the picture.
shroud 3 pics sized.jpg
 

Dave_T

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Thanks Valveman!

I'll just recalibrate the Pumpsaver and record amperage. No, I don't have an inducer. Yes, 100' sounds like a good idea. Even during historically bad times I should still be in 50' of water, should....

The other odd thing is that most of the time there is a slight breeze coming up the well head. Who knows what's going on down there.

Thank you!
 

Reach4

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On your breeze, it may be coming up at times and down at others. Check it when the barometer is high and rising.

If always up, I wonder if there is methane.
 

Dave_T

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If there is methane, I can't smell it. It smells slightly of damp cave.

FYI, my Franklin control box(es) used to be mounted on the well head with the breeze going up the nipple into the box. 2-3 caps, a reset button and something else rotted out. After I moved the control box off of the well head, no parts failures in ten years.
 

Reach4

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If there is methane, I can't smell it. It smells slightly of damp cave.

FYI, my Franklin control box(es) used to be mounted on the well head with the breeze going up the nipple into the box. 2-3 caps, a reset button and something else rotted out. After I moved the control box off of the well head, no parts failures in ten years.

The natural gas going to a gas stove has had odorant added. You cannot smell methane. So probably not methane, since you are maybe in the part of Texas that does not have gas wells and seepages. :) I would not use a flame to find out.

Consider screening against tiny ants. I used 100 mesh, but 60 mesh is very probably sufficient.
 

Dave_T

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I thought methane had a distinct odor?

I've had to clean ohmic ants out of a neighbor's pressure switch contacts. Is it ozone that attracts?
 

Reach4

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Never heard of ohmic ants, and don't find them in a search. ("Borg: Resistance is futile") I have heard of sugar ants in Texas being tiny.

Besides using smaller vent screen on my well cap (pitless below frost line), I used Duct Seal Compound to double up on the sealing of the cap. I also used duct seal in the conduit to keep ants from traveling up the conduit.

I don't know if there is an antproof pressure switch.

EDIT: here is a relevant link: https://perryspumprepair.com/blog/blog-well-pump-switch-attracting-ants/
 

Dave_T

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Borg ants! For us it's usually the standard fire ant but the crazy ant gets in there too.

Pretty much all ants are ohmic except for the ones made of adamantium. (Adam Ant?!)
 
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