Sizing new softener and filtration in SoCal

Users who are viewing this thread

Jeff Michael

New Member
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Torrance, CA
Hi all,
I've been reading up in this forum for a couple weeks and trying to fully understand the water softening and whole house filtering stuff. I was pretty sure a 1.5 to 2.0 cu ft resin system and Fleck 5610 SXT valves would do the trick based on everything I read. Then I started trying to make the purchase. Not so easy!! From Goodwater I get referred to a Manhattan Beach plumber who seems to know nothing. Then I call Impact Water Products thinking they will help out (dittohead?), but they refer me to a local guy who is supposed to be knowledgeable. He recommends a 4.0 cf system!! I talk him down to 3 cu ft politely telling him he is crazy. But he insists I shouldn't go smaller. He states he has seen that Torrance water is 20 grains hardness.
I have 6 people in the house. We are currently averaging about 50 gal per person (but 3 of 4 kids are still young so I expect I'll be at 75 gal per person soon). I'm on city water in Torrance, CA. Water quality reports state the average hardness is around 12 grains and the max is about 20. I measured flow rates of my main fixtures in the house. I have 4 bathrooms. I will often run 6 gpm flow rate. I will rarely exceed 8 gpm. I will at most hit 12 gpm for very short, rare occasions. I almost went for the 3 cu ft system, but I still think its way overkill. What do you guys think? I want to also get a carbon filter to get the chlorine out (and other minor impurities that I'm not too concerned about). Should it be the same size tank? I'll probably go 5610 SXT valves on both. I have a 1" main line.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,798
Reaction score
4,412
Points
113
Location
IL
5610 SXT valve
Figuring 5*60 per day, and setting hardness=21, 2 cuft would be OK when using 7 lb/cuft of salt.
Going 2.5, it would be a little more efficient than a 2.

Presuming 70 gallons per person, you would want 3 cubic ft or more, but the salt inefficiency at 2.5 would not be bad. It turns out that 2.5 in a 13x54 is a bit of a limit for something... The 14x65 used with 3 cubic ft does have a wider mouth than the 2.5 inches of the smaller ones. It may be harder to ship. So anyway, I would probably be thinking of a 2.5 for you.

One thing to not is there are that California requires softeners to be set up for a more salt-efficient salt dose than the 6 to 8 that would normally be chosen for good salt efficiency consisistant with good water softness. You may want to tweak that yourself to use just a little more salt.

A 2.5 has an 18 gpm service flow rate (SFR).

70 gpd per person is more than usual for today. Remember that the irrigation water will not be going thru the softener. You may want to add a drinking water tap that is after your carbon tank and before the softener.

I don't know about chlorine removal calculations, but I know that chloramine removal is harder than chlorine removal. Many towns have switched to that. Chloramine calls for catalytic carbon rather than GAC from what I have read. On the other hand you would usually not need complete removal. People who don't remove any seem to do OK.

You are probably talking about a 5810 SXT valve.
 

AFW Filters

New Member
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Pfeifer, KS
Website
store.afwfilters.com
Hello,

For 6 people and 75 gallons per day would be 450 gallons. Multiply that by 20 (max hardness) that would be 9000 grains of the capacity of the system per day. You typically want around 7 days between regenerations. A 64k softener (2 cu.ft) would give you right at 7 days between regenerations based on the calculations mentioned. (64,000/9,000=7.1 days).

I would recommend a catalytic carbon filter for the chlorine/chloramines. If you don't use more than 8gpm, then a 2 cubic foot system would work also. Ours rate at a 10GPM service flow for proper treatment. There is the option of having a backwashing filter or just an in and out tank with the catalytic carbon media inside.
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,795
Reaction score
768
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
A 64k softener (2 cu.ft) would give you right at 7 days
(64,000/9,000=7.1 days).
The total system capacity should not be utilized as that would require a massive and inefficient amount of salt to regenerate. To regenerate all 64K grains in a 2 cuft system, would require 36 lbs each regen cycle, resulting in a maximum salt efficiency of 1,777 grains/lb.

64K grains is unrealistic as some resin will be fractured and will wear during handling and backwashing. A 2 cuft softener could realistically deliver 60K grains which would require 30 lbs salt = 2,000 grains/lb efficiency.

Far better to install a larger softener, but program to utilize a more efficient salt dose. For example, to regenerate 60K grains with a 2.5 cuft softener, would require only 20 lbs salt, increasing the efficiency to 3,000 grains/lb. Likewise, a 3 cuft unit would require 18 lbs to regenerate 60K grains, with a resulting salt efficiency of 3,333 grains/lb.

Suggest not relying on 'average' or 'max' hardness data but have the water hardness tested directly at your home. Since a municipal supply is often obtained from multiple sources, add 2 or 3 additional grains hardness to the actual hardness test reading, to anticipate some variance caused by time of day and seasonal demands.
 
Last edited:

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
6,088
Reaction score
455
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
AFW, I think your math is off. A 64,000 grain softener would almost never be set to 64,000 grains removal as this would waste massive amounts of salt. The typical setting would be much closer to 40,000 grains removal or 6 pounds of salt per ft3. In California we are supposed to be closer to 4 pounds of salt per ft3. so the actual system capacity would be closer to 32,000 rains for the 64,000 system.

The math,

6 people x 75 gallons per person per day x 20 grains x 7 days = 64,000 grains per week...
With a real rating of 20,000 grains per ft3, a 3-4 ft3 would be ideal for your application but since you are in a newer house with modern fixtures and appliances I would estimate your water usage would probably be less than 50 Gallons per person per day. so...

6 people x 50 gallons per person per day x 20 grains x 7 days = 42,000 grains per week... so a 2.5 would probably be your best bet. just match the carbon tank to the softener.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks