Shower sound from downstairs too loud

[Greenwood]

35 year old building would be beyond the expectations of builder. Most Likely Copper as Terry said . if its a tub /shower thgen that might explain someone turning on water letteing it run through spout (presumeably) to warm up and then pulling the diverter for shower. in anycase pretty much some testing by plumber with co operation from neighbor .

 

[Greenwood]

35 year old building would be beyond the expectations of builder. Most Likely Copper as Terry said . if its a tub /shower thgen that might explain someone turning on water letteing it run through spout (presumeably) to warm up and then pulling the diverter for shower. in anycase pretty much some testing by plumber with co operation from neighbor .

Yes, as I just replied to Terry, I actually don't know whether they are taking bath or taking shower. They have a 3-year-old baby. in my original post, I mentioned sometimes the sound last longer, and sometimes it is only loud at the beginning and the end. So my guess is: when the baby is taking bath, the sound lasts longer to fill the tub with water running through the tub spout. When the parents are taking shower, the sound is loud only at the beginning and the end when they divert the water to the shower head and back.

In this case, they need to replace the tub spout, right? do they also need to replace the shower head?

Thank you,

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jadnashua]

I've experienced several of my own tub spout diverters that got noisy when they got older...replacing them always fixed it.

 

[Greenwood]

I've experienced several of my own tub spout diverters that got noisy when they got older...replacing them always fixed it.

will try to see. Hope it works.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Actually Greenwood , I don't suspect the noise means its a bad tub spout. You see the tub spout allows far more water to flow causing more noise. However I can't say that the noise couldn't be from bad tub spout it might be worth a try changing it especially if its an ordinary low end one the price isn't much. I'm hoping you get improvements with little work/cost . please keep posted its very interesting to hear how it plays out.

 

[Jadnashua]

A diverter tub spout doesn't usually make noise until you divert it to the shower, and then, only once the seal starts to wear out. It tends to be a fairly high-pitched squeal, but depending on the pressure and flow, it might be lower frequency. IF that's it, it's a fairly easy fix...replace the spout with a new one as few of them allow you to replace the seal, and, it's just as likely to be the seat that is now rough.

 

[Reach4]

Sounded to me like it could be water flowing thru pipes in your wall, rather than noise actually generated in the bathroom below. Or water flowing thru pipes elsewhere and transmitted somehow up to you. I am not a plumber.

Tell us about that 45dBA sound rule. I am surprised by such a rule. Is that aimed at music and parties from the neighbors, or is it a building construction rule?

Does each unit have its own water shutoff valve? I am wondering if the supply piping is not routed through the attic above you, and passes through your wall on the way to the unit below.

If they want to help you out with your problem, they could fill the tub slowly.

 

[Jeff H Young]

endless possibilities but if changing spout quiets the complaints then all good

 

[Greenwood]

Thank you for all the reply. I have scheduled with a plumber to have a check on Thursday and will give you more updates. It seems my shower doesn't disturb my downstairs neighbors at all. It's really confusing. Hopefully the plumber will find out the cause and get the issue solved on Thursday.

 

[Greenwood]

Sounded to me like it could be water flowing thru pipes in your wall, rather than noise actually generated in the bathroom below. Or water flowing thru pipes elsewhere and transmitted somehow up to you. I am not a plumber.

Tell us about that 45dBA sound rule. I am surprised by such a rule. Is that aimed at music and parties from the neighbors, or is it a building construction rule?

Does each unit have its own water shutoff valve? I am wondering if the supply piping is not routed through the attic above you, and passes through your wall on the way to the unit below.

If they want to help you out with your problem, they could fill the tub slowly.

No, the entire building has just one water shutoff valve. I have a water heater above my bathroom ceiling, but I am not sure whether it is just for my home or for both mine and my downstairs.

The 45 dBA is our city’s Residential Noise Standards and Limits, which are currently as follows:
Municipal Code Sec. 17.66.050. - Residential noise standards.

10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.
Exterior 60 dBA 65dBA
Interior 45 dBA 50dBA

 

[Greenwood]

A diverter tub spout doesn't usually make noise until you divert it to the shower, and then, only once the seal starts to wear out. It tends to be a fairly high-pitched squeal, but depending on the pressure and flow, it might be lower frequency. IF that's it, it's a fairly easy fix...replace the spout with a new one as few of them allow you to replace the seal, and, it's just as likely to be the seat that is now rough.

Yeah, what confused me is that I have searched online and saw various related issues, but no one is the same as mine. Very frustrated.

 

[Greenwood]

Actually Greenwood , I don't suspect the noise means its a bad tub spout. You see the tub spout allows far more water to flow causing more noise. However I can't say that the noise couldn't be from bad tub spout it might be worth a try changing it especially if its an ordinary low end one the price isn't much. I'm hoping you get improvements with little work/cost . please keep posted its very interesting to hear how it plays out.

Sure. I have already made an appointment with a plumber on Thursday, and will post the updates then. Thank you for your help and suggestions!

 

[Jadnashua]

In the tub spouts that I've needed to replace because of noise, once I've started a shower, they don't always make noise through the whole time...especially if you play with the plunger a little. So, it could be intermittent, or continuous.

A valve that uses washers rather than say a cartridge, can make some nasty vibrations when things wear and things get loose. It's hard to say without being there and actually hearing the sound involved and viewing the situation that created it.

Excessive flow rates can cause noises in the pipes, but it would be unusual for it to only present itself from one unit in the building.

 

[Greenwood]

I had a plumber here today, he replaced the cartridge, but didn't solve the problem. My downstairs neighbor said he also replaced the cartridge not long ago, so it seems it is not downstairs cartridge problem. The plumber said he would get back to me once he got an idea after discussing with others in his company. That's the updates for today.

Is my issue a rare case?

 

[Jeff H Young]

no not rare at all noisy plumbing is a common problem but the uncommon thing is people that try to fix them and are willing to put money in on fixes that are unlikely to help

 

[Greenwood]

no not rare at all noisy plumbing is a common problem but the uncommon thing is people that try to fix them and are willing to put money in on fixes that are unlikely to help

I'd like to fix it no matter how much It costs, I told my downstairs neighbor that I will be responsible for all the cost. But now the problem is the plumber doesn't know what the issue is and hasn't got back to me yet. I will follow up with him on Monday. The headache is it needs the downstairs neighbor cooperation every time the plumber comes. It is possible it is not plumbing problem, but some construction issue? Should I find a construction worker or someone else?

Thank you,

 

[Reach4]

I am not a plumber. My best guess is that at least some of the water to the apartment below runs through your walls. In my suspicion, the pipes are smallish, and generate noise. They are clamped in such a way that the vibration passes to your wall, which acts as a soundboard.

If the problem is the noise is being generated from inside your walls, you could have that path replaced with bigger pipes. You could put sound deadening material around the pipes.

For experiments, I would look at the noise when 3 gpm of just hot is used below. When 3 gpm of just cold is used below. Identify if the noise is strongest when a particular fixture is used -- does downstairs lavatory hot or cold cause the sound? Toilet refill after flush.

There are also sound deadening materials that could be applied outside of your wall surface. I am no expert on pipe noises, and I am throwing out things to consider and generate experiments.

If the noise is happening, and you have your sound meter going, does somebody pressing by hand at various spots on your wall reduce the sound?

 

[Jadnashua]

With copper piping, the Copper Institute's recommendation on maximum velocity of the water is 5fps for hot, and 8fps on cold. On a 1/2" pipe, that's only 4gpm on the hot supply. If those numbers are exceeded, you start to get water flow noises and potentially, erosion inside of the pipes. The friction from the higher velocity also causes more friction and the dynamic pressure drops.

Water flow noises could be from various sources:
1. excessive velocity causing turbulence (may require larger pipes to resolve)
2. a partially opened valve with a washer - when worn, the washer can vibrate during some flow rates
2a. a gate valve that is worn that is rattling the gate. Normally not an issue when fully opened or fully closed.
3. on a tub spout, the seal when diverting can vibrate on its seat
4. a mineral clogged shower head
5. probably lots of others

Being there and hearing it might offer a bit more insight. Hard to say from remote.

 

[Greenwood]

I am not a plumber. My best guess is that at least some of the water to the apartment below runs through your walls. In my suspicion, the pipes are smallish, and generate noise. They are clamped in such a way that the vibration passes to your wall, which acts as a soundboard.

If the problem is the noise is being generated from inside your walls, you could have that path replaced with bigger pipes. You could put sound deadening material around the pipes.

For experiments, I would look at the noise when 3 gpm of just hot is used below. When 3 gpm of just cold is used below. Identify if the noise is strongest when a particular fixture is used -- does downstairs lavatory hot or cold cause the sound? Toilet refill after flush.

There are also sound deadening materials that could be applied outside of your wall surface. I am no expert on pipe noises, and I am throwing out things to consider and generate experiments.

If the noise is happening, and you have your sound meter going, does somebody pressing by hand at various spots on your wall reduce the sound?

Thank you for the suggestions. Yes, I am also thinking of drywall soundproof as the last solution, but not sure how that works. My preference is still looking for the cause and solve it as it might damage the house in the long run. I don't think pressing the wall can reduce the sound, i can hear the sound from the wall though.

 

[Reach4]

I was thinking of sound insulation on the offending pipe(s). For better sound deadening by drywall, they often use two sheets together. But a solution at the pipes is more pinpoint if a pipe is the source.