Re-Assembling a Valve for Iron Filter

[JustaDIYer]

I'm finally getting around to putting my iron filter back into service, as you can see, the rust build up from when I took it apart. Couple questions:
1. Are these spacers and such required ? Fleck 5800sxt
2. Been reading a lot on the top of the riser tube should have an umbrella type diffuser. Does that replace this stack?
3. Just going to replace with same riser tube since it came out ok. Or should I replace it with one with umbrella top?
4. Best way to clean this bypass valve? Soak it with Iron Out?
5. Currently my plumbing is 1" pvc from pump to pressure tank; then it necks down to 3/4" pvc/copper to iron filter; 1" pvc between iron filter and softener; then down to 3/4" pvc/copper to the house. Should I replumb it all to 1" pvc till after the softener?



Replacing it with KL media again and new gravel. I'd like more of a full proof method to get rid of iron since this doesn't last too long from my first experience with this media, can't say for sure how long the last batch lasted but I fought iron for a while til I tore it apart and removed it from the system and found the media was iron saturated (no clumps in the media so backwashing was doing its job)

AIO doesn't seem to be the best way either, the injector gets clogged with rust, air in the system sputtering out of the fixtures. Chlorine or hydrogen peroxide I'm sure works great but then need another tank to get rid of that plus a retention tank. Found Terminox which seems to be really good in iron reduction, but can't seem to find it unless you buy the entire system, and the valve is a proprietary.

Tried talking to a few places but all you get is sales pitches and 'our way is the best' and hard to decipher what is true.

 

[Bannerman]

What you are describing I interpret to be mainly a Backwashing issue.

top of the riser tube should have an umbrella type diffuser. Does that replace this stack?

A media iron reduction system, should not be equipped with an upper media basket such as shown.

While an upper basket is commonly utilized as a diffuser with many other media types including water softeners, but for iron reduction, the slots in an upper basket will become caked with ferric iron solids (sticky rust particles) which will reduce Backwash flow. This is clearly what is happening in your system as the majority of the basket slots continue to remain fully blocked with ferric solids. During each actual Backwash cycle, it's highly likely that backwash flow through the remaining open slots is becoming further blocked with additional ferric iron solids.

To prevent any backwash flow restriction, the upper basket will often be simply eliminated, but without a diffuser, the water stream entering above the media, will flow straight down, thereby washing a depression into the media directly below.

Although you could remove the basket, recommend installing an umbrella diffuser to deflect/diffuse the incoming water stream across the tank diameter above the media. An umbrella diffuser is a simple cone shaped disk which will be installed and supported using a clamp ring, directly on the existing riser tube, a few inches below the control valve.

Best way to clean this bypass valve? Soak it with Iron Out?

Iron Out should be effective. An alternative will be Citric Acid which will have a more pleasant scent.

Found Terminox which seems to be really good in iron reduction,

Terminox is a brand name of manganese dioxide media that will oxidize and trap contaminants such as iron, manganese and hydrogen sulfide (H2S).

Replacing it with KL media again and new gravel.

KL is manganese dioxide which is coated onto Zeolite particles, allowing lighter weight which reduces the backwash flow requirements. It is the usual recommended media for reduction of iron, manganese, hydrogen sulfide, as well as heavy metals and radionuclides. kL is also a highly effective filtration media, down to 3 microns.

If your KL media remains loose and granular, perhaps with proper backwashing, its use could be extended?

A few questions:

What is the DLFC restrictor flow rate currently installed?

What is the diameter of your media tank?

How long is the Backwash and Rinse cycles? How frequent?

Amount of iron & manganese in your raw well water?

Water pH?

no clumps in the media so backwashing was doing its job

With insufficient backwashing over an extended time, the media is more likely to harden into a solid mass, similar to concrete as shown at the link below.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/katalox-light-jpg.67448/

 

[Sponsor]

 

[JustaDIYer]

So this stack shouldn't be there at all?

If this removed, would the riser tube be too short then?

A few questions:

What is the DLFC restrictor flow rate currently installed?

What is the diameter of your media tank?

How long is the Backwash and Rinse cycles? How frequent?

Amount of iron & manganese in your raw well water?

Water pH?

currently... 5gpm (probably order a 6 or 7 gpm when i can find it, and if same place as umbrella diffuser, even better)
10x54 tank
I'll have to verify tonight when i get home, but does regen every 2 days
2.3ppm iron/0.1 mg/L Mn
pH - 7.4 last time i checked it.

When I dumped the old KL media out, there were no clumps, all 1.5cuft came out easily while running water into the tank.

 

[Bannerman]

If this removed, would the riser tube be too short then?

The riser will be passing through the upper basket, inserted directly into the control valve. Removing the upper basket will not effect the length of the tube, but will make it easier to see where the tube will be inserted within the valve. As there will be an O-ring seal to insert the tube into, use a food grade silicone lubricant such as Chemplex 862 or Dow Release Compound 7, on the exterior top of the riser tube before insertion, as well as for lubricating all seals and O-rings.

2.3ppm iron/0.1 mg/L Mn

Your iron content is significant, and the manganese only further adds to the contaminant load that KL is to remove. Iron reduction using media will be most effective when pH is above 7.0, so @ 7.4, no acid neutralization will be needed.

5gpm (probably order a 6 or 7 gpm when i can find it,

The recommended Backwash flow rate for KL media is 10-15 GPM per square foot of cross section. For a 10" diameter tank, that calculates to 5.4 - 8.1 GPM. For optimal performance, especially for eliminating a significant amount of ferric iron + manganese residue, recommend maxing the Backwash rate by using an 8.1 GPM DLFC.

With that much iron + manganese, you likely would have benefitted from a larger filter system. Using an additional oxidant such as chlorine, hydrogen peroxide, air or ozone, will provide additional oxidation prior to the KL media, thereby lessening the oxidation load placed on the media. Hopefully, simply eliminating the upper basket restriction and increasing the DLFC to the appropriate flow rate, will be sufficient to permit the 1.5 ft3 KL media to perform effectively.

To answer one of your previous questions, yes, recommend increasing the supply pipe diameter until after the softener.

The filter and softener should also be programmed so they can't cycle at the same time or with any overlap. You could program the KL filter to Backwash at 1:30am, so with a usual 10-minute BW and 6-10 minute Rapid Rinse, the filter's cycles will be completed in less than 30-minutes, thereby permitting the softener Regen Time to remain programmed for 2am.

Too bad you dumped the existing KL media as it likely could have been further utilized after an extended Backwash at the appropriate flow rate.

 

[JustaDIYer]

ok... thanks

I'll look for the diffuser and a larger dlfc button.

So the diffuser will go a couple inches below where the riser tube goes into the valve?

I figured the media has a life span and it ran it's course. Read that KL has a coating that wears off over time and then the KL needs to be replaced. Maybe that's not true. Who knows.

Those numbers you mentioned for RR and BW seem similar to mine. And yes, I have the two set to not regen at same time.

 

[Reach4]

Since no clumps, I would keep the old media if under (guessing) 7 or 8 years old. No clumps is great.

Terminox is a brand name of media that will oxidize and trap contaminants such as iron, manganese and hydrogen sulfide (H2S).

It would require a lot more GPMs of backwash than KL, which is the disadvantage.

I would want a backwash of 7 to 9 gpm with a 10 inch tank.

 

[JustaDIYer]

Since no clumps, I would keep the old media if under (guessing) 7 or 8 years old. No clumps is great.

Old media is long gone. Seemed to quit working, hence why I removed it and bought new media.

Can't seem to find a diffuser. I have an email into impactwater, saw one on their brochure.

 

[JustaDIYer]

I think i found them finally. These correct? my riser tube measures 1.05" ID.

DLFC 7.0 GPM Drain Line Flow Control for Fleck 5600/2510/9000/9100 Series (Fleck Part 12408)

Efficient 7.0 gpm DLFC for Fleck 5600, 25109000, 9100 series water systems. Optimize flow with precision for reliable performance. Get Rid of Impurities Now.

store.afwfilters.com

Diffuser Cone Basket for Fleck Air Injection AIO Control Valves - Fits 1.05" and 32mm Distributor Tubes

Diffuser Cone Basket for Fleck Air Injection AIO Control Valves - Fits 1.05" and 32mm Distributor Tubes

store.afwfilters.com

 

[Reach4]

I think i found them finally. These correct? my riser tube measures 1.05" ID.

Your DLFC would be Fleck 60705-70 ............... DLFC, Plastic, 7.0 gpm per the 5800SXT service manual, but please check that yourself too.

Different number from the 5600 parts.

 

[JustaDIYer]

that's what i used for pn. according to the 5810sxt service manual, I need washer 12408.

 

[Reach4]

that's what i used for pn. according to the 5810sxt service manual, I need washer 12408.

1. Are these spacers and such required ? Fleck 5800sxt

5800 and 5810 are very different from each other.

 

[JustaDIYer]

5800 and 5810 are very different from each other.

????????

 

[Reach4]

????????

1. I had been looking at the 5800SXT rev B manual. If I look at the rev G manual, I agree that it lists 12408. I think the number I cited was a combination of button and a housing. https://www.pentair.com/content/dam/extranet/web/nam/fleck/manuals/43359-01-fleck-5800sxt-manual.pdf is the rev G manual. The rev B manual did not contain the string "12408". https://hillwater.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/5800-SXT-user-manual.pdf is the rev B version of the manual.

2. In #10 you referred to the 5810sxt service manual. So while it is true that the 5800 and 5810 are very different, this button would seem to not be a difference. But you don't want to refer to the 5810 manual in the future, if you have a 5800.

 

[JustaDIYer]

i have a 5810sxt controller.


is there a way to install an injection system on this controller so I can periodically inject chlorine to clean the media? kind of like the brine draw on a softener, just draw a cup or whatever from a cup on occasion. Yes, I know not to run chlorine thru the softener.

Something like, draw the chlorine in, let is soak for a bit and then backwash/rinse it out?

 

[Reach4]

is there a way to install an injection system on this controller so I can periodically inject chlorine to clean the media? kind of like the brine draw on a softener, just draw a cup or whatever from a cup on occasion. Yes, I know not to run chlorine thru the softener.

It would need some parts that you don't have, including switching to a softener downflow piston. You would need an injector, and associated parts. You would need a brine valve. And maybe some other parts.

I expect your valve was set up as a filter, so lots of changes. So unless you had a used 5810SXT softener controller to cannibalize, these would cost a fair amount as spare parts, and I am not sure if listed it all.

I agree that it would probably be advantageous for the media.

 

[JustaDIYer]

ugh... so the only way would be to unscrew the control head and pour chlorine into the tank, let it soak and then run a regen to wash it out (maybe 2 regens)?

 

[Reach4]

ugh... so the only way would be to unscrew the control head and pour chlorine into the tank, let it soak and then run a regen to wash it out (maybe 2 regens)?

You could put in a cartridge filter before this, but it would have to be very low pressure drop.

You would drop the sump, add a bleach solution to the sump, replace the sump (and o-ring if that needs doing) and then cause some flow. The sump could have a high-micron filter element or no filter element at all.

You could also get some kind of solution injector triggered by a relay output on the 5810SXT. See RE Relay Setting at the bottom of page 9 of the service manual. I have not seen anybody write about this, and I have not experimented.

Among solution injector choices are Stenner pumps.

 

[JustaDIYer]

so i'll be getting the parts in today.

- do i have to soak the new media for a day or so before hooking everything back up? i assume to soak it with softened water.
- after hooking it all back up, do i just run a regen or two to clean up the media?

anything else?

 

[Reach4]

- do i have to soak the new media for a day or so before hooking everything back up? i assume to soak it with softened water.

I would soak before running the water through at normal speed, or at least don't backwash until time to soak.. Keep things bypassed until media has had time to soak.

You could potentially throttle the water into the media to soak with the bypass valve slightly opened.

- after hooking it all back up, do i just run a regen or two to clean up the media?

After soaking, I think you want to do an extended backwash, rather than two 5 or 10 minute backups. I think you can power down the valve during a backwash to extend the backwash indefinitely.

 

[JustaDIYer]

so found out my piston is broken as well. and trying to order a new one and I'm a little confused. White dot supposedly indicates downflow while a yellow dot should be for a filter. mine has a white dot and looks like the replacement.

is this incorrect as well from when i ordered it and they set me up incorrectly, same way they did with the lower baskets?