Rainwater cistern as a supplement to private well options?

[jaws2003]

Good Afternoon everyone,

I just found this site as I am looking for a solution. For my problem. I inherited some land and a home from my dad after he passed away in 2016. Since then my well problems have been worse and worse. He had it drilled in 1995 and it's 250 feet deep with plenty of iron. The pumps and a lot of other parts constantly go out. Now I'm looking for another solution because I have spent a lot of money trying to maintain this well and nothing is working. What I am thinking about is adding a 1,200 gallon cistern to tie into my current system. I would want to collect rainwater to go into the cistern. The well is about 25 yards from my home. I would want to place the cistern about halfway between my home and well tank. My roof is 62 feet x 24 feet(4 bed and 2 bath). What I would like to do is run the piping from the cistern and tie in before my pressure tank. Would I need another pump to get pressure into my tank from the cistern or can I just let the water flow naturally into the pressure tank with a check valve? I will add some pictures of my current well setup. Please excuse the tree as I'm still trying to clean up from hurricane helene

 

[Valveman]

Sorry for your problems. Iron can be a pain. Galvanized tanks like that are used to aerate the water to get rid of the iron. But the galvanized tank and air controls can be more of a pain than iron. The tank does nothing to the iron in the well, which can also clog up the pump. I would switch to a diaphragm style tank design using a Cycle Stop Valve. If the galvanized tank and controls is allowing the pumps to cycle themselves to death as usually happens, the CSV will solve the problem and make the pump last a long time. That is, as long as the pump doesn't clog with iron. I would use a larger tank like 86 gallon size (20 gallon draw) rather than the normal 4.5 gallon size (1.2 gallon draw) tank with the CSV. The larger tank will allow the pump to stay off for a long time when a Sulfur Eliminator is dropping 1.5 gallons an hour or aerated water down the well. Aerating the water in the well should keep the pump from clogging up. Check with the guy that makes the Sulfur Eliminator to see if he agrees.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

Would I need another pump to get pressure into my tank from the cistern or can I just let the water flow naturally into the pressure tank with a check valve?

A separate pump will be needed to pump water from a cistern into a pressurized pressure tank.

I would want to collect rainwater to go into the cistern. My roof is 62 feet x 24 feet(4 bed and 2 bath).

How do you plan to treat the rainwater to make it safe for use in your home's plumbing system? A roof provides a large area for bird droppings and other environmental pollutants to collect. Without reliable and appropriate methods for sanitizing and filtering the water to ensure safety and bacteria control, water collected would be best utilized for irrigation and possibly toilet flushing.

Since then my well problems have been worse and worse. He had it drilled in 1995 and it's 250 feet deep with plenty of iron. The pumps and a lot of other parts constantly go out.

Describe the issues you are 'constantly' experiencing.

What is the current pump brand & model?
Well static water level?
Well recovery rate?
Pump placement depth?
Is your pressure tank equipped with an air volume control? (not shown in the photos)
Pressure switch pressure settings? (ie: 20/40, 30/50, 40/60)

Post a current lab test report for the raw well water.

 

[Valveman]

You can make a booster system for the rainwater catchment tank the same way. You just won't need the larger tank as the 4.5 gallon size is all that is needed with a CSV unless you are using something small like the 1.5 gallons an hour 24/7.

 

[jaws2003]

Sorry for your problems. Iron can be a pain. Galvanized tanks like that are used to aerate the water to get rid of the iron. But the galvanized tank and air controls can be more of a pain than iron. The tank does nothing to the iron in the well, which can also clog up the pump. I would switch to a diaphragm style tank design using a Cycle Stop Valve. If the galvanized tank and controls is allowing the pumps to cycle themselves to death as usually happens, the CSV will solve the problem and make the pump last a long time. That is, as long as the pump doesn't clog with iron. I would use a larger tank like 86 gallon size (20 gallon draw) rather than the normal 4.5 gallon size (1.2 gallon draw) tank with the CSV. The larger tank will allow the pump to stay off for a long time when a Sulfur Eliminator is dropping 1.5 gallons an hour or aerated water down the well. Aerating the water in the well should keep the pump from clogging up. Check with the guy that makes the Sulfur Eliminator to see if he agrees.

View attachment 101633

Thanks for your insight I never thought about changing the tank and installing a Cycle Stop Valve.

 

[jaws2003]

A separate pump will be needed to pump water from a cistern into a pressurized pressure tank.


How do you plan to treat the rainwater to make it safe for use in your home's plumbing system? A roof provides a large area for bird droppings and other environmental pollutants to collect. Without reliable and appropriate methods for sanitizing and filtering the water to ensure safety and bacteria control, water collected would be best utilized for irrigation and possibly toilet flushing.


Describe the issues you are 'constantly' experiencing.

What is the current pump brand & model?
Well static water level?
Well recovery rate?
Pump placement depth?
Is your pressure tank equipped with an air volume control? (not shown in the photos)
Pressure switch pressure settings? (ie: 20/40, 30/50, 40/60)

Post a current lab test report for the raw well water.

1. OK. That's good to know. A shallow water well pump will do the trick correct?

2. For the process of making the rainwater free of any harmful bacteria and chemicals I plan to have a whole house filter coupled with a UV filter if that will get rid of it. I also plan to have screens and leaf catchers for the rainwater.

A separate pump will be needed to pump water from a cistern into a pressurized pressure tank.


How do you plan to treat the rainwater to make it safe for use in your home's plumbing system? A roof provides a large area for bird droppings and other environmental pollutants to collect. Without reliable and appropriate methods for sanitizing and filtering the water to ensure safety and bacteria control, water collected would be best utilized for irrigation and possibly toilet flushing.


Describe the issues you are 'constantly' experiencing.

What is the current pump brand & model?
Well static water level?
Well recovery rate?
Pump placement depth?
Is your pressure tank equipped with an air volume control? (not shown in the photos)
Pressure switch pressure settings? (ie: 20/40, 30/50, 40/60)

Post a current lab test report for the raw well water.

1. Thanks for the information. So I'm assuming a shallow well pump will do the trick?

2. From what I've been seeing I plan to have some whole house filters and a UV filter before thw water comes into my home.

3. The issues for the well have been the premature failure of the pumps. That's the most annoying thing. Since my dad passed in 2016 I've replaced 3 of them so far. Also the well repair men have dropped the pump twice and now I have a mixture if sand and iron coming in. With my whole house filter it eliminates much of the orange colored water but I have to frequently change the filters at least once per month. Also I keep going through check valves. I think one just went out again or the pump. I just replaced that pump about 2 years ago and nobody knows what is going on. When my dad had the well drilled it seems like the driller hit an underground stream or something because you can constantly hear water falling further into the well.

 

[jaws2003]

You can make a booster system for the rainwater catchment tank the same way. You just won't need the larger tank as the 4.5 gallon size is all that is needed with a CSV unless you are using something small like the 1.5 gallons an hour 24/7.
View attachment 101634

This is good to know.

 

[jaws2003]

A separate pump will be needed to pump water from a cistern into a pressurized pressure tank.


How do you plan to treat the rainwater to make it safe for use in your home's plumbing system? A roof provides a large area for bird droppings and other environmental pollutants to collect. Without reliable and appropriate methods for sanitizing and filtering the water to ensure safety and bacteria control, water collected would be best utilized for irrigation and possibly toilet flushing.


Describe the issues you are 'constantly' experiencing.

What is the current pump brand & model?
Well static water level?
Well recovery rate?
Pump placement depth?
Is your pressure tank equipped with an air volume control? (not shown in the photos)
Pressure switch pressure settings? (ie: 20/40, 30/50, 40/60)

Post a current lab test report for the raw well water.

1. OK. That's good to know. A shallow water well pump will do the trick correct?

2. For the process of making the rainwater free of any harmful bacteria and chemicals I plan to have a whole house filter coupled with a UV filter if that will get rid of it. I also plan to have screens and leaf catchers for the rainwater.

 

[Valveman]

Somebody needs to look at one of the old pumps and determine the cause of failure. Is it clogging with iron, or is cycling on and off killing it as it does most pumps? The pump cycling on and off also causes check valve failures and stirs up the well. All the problems caused by cycling can be solved by adding a Cycle Stop Valve if you can mitigate the iron without the galvanized tank.

And yes a shallow well jet pump makes a good booster, but I prefer a submersible.

 

[Bannerman]

2. For the process of making the rainwater free of any harmful bacteria and chemicals I plan to have a whole house filter coupled with a UV filter if that will get rid of it. I also plan to have screens and leaf catchers for the rainwater.

I anticipate chlorination will be needed to provide consistent and reliable safe water for consumption. To remove any residual chlorine, disinfection bi-products and many other chemical contaminants prior to supplying the home's plumbing system, a backwashing carbon filtration system is advisable.

While many cartridge filters are marketed as 'Whole Home', a typical carbon cartridge does not incorporate sufficient carbon media to provide much benefit. Cartridge type carbon filters are usually best suited for point-of-use (1 faucet) applications.

While Carbon is a very capable and effective filtration media, it does not remove most contaminants immediately on contact, but requires sufficient contact time for optimal contaminant 'adsorption' to occur. To provide sufficient contact time at a reasonable flow rate needed for a point of entry application, the recommended minimum quantity of GAC (granular activated carbon) is 1.5 cubic foot, thereby utilizing a 10" X 54" tank equipped with a backwashing control valve. A 2 ft3 or larger system will further provide greater contact time while supporting higher flow rates.

UV filters do not remove bacteria, but instead, alter the bacteria's DNA, thereby preventing the bacteria from replicating. Since sediment and other small debris in the water can shade the UV light from reaching bacteria, and as a UV light can stop functioning without being immediately recognized, a UV system is often recommended as a supplementary bacteria control method, supplementary to a primary disinfection method such as chlorination.

 

[jaws2003]

Somebody needs to look at one of the old pumps and determine the cause of failure. Is it clogging with iron, or is cycling on and off killing it as it does most pumps? The pump cycling on and off also causes check valve failures and stirs up the well. All the problems caused by cycling can be solved by adding a Cycle Stop Valve if you can mitigate the iron without the galvanized tank.

And yes a shallow well jet pump makes a good booster, but I prefer a submersible.

View attachment 101663

The last well pump the top had blew off. I can see if i can find some pictures the last well guy sent to me. Also I've been looking up cycle stop valves and I've been seeing mixed reviews about them.

 

[jaws2003]

I anticipate chlorination will be needed to provide consistent and reliable safe water for consumption. To remove any residual chlorine, disinfection bi-products and many other chemical contaminants prior to supplying the home's plumbing system, a backwashing carbon filtration system is advisable.

While many cartridge filters are marketed as 'Whole Home', a typical carbon cartridge does not incorporate sufficient carbon media to provide much benefit. Cartridge type carbon filters are usually best suited for point-of-use (1 faucet) applications.

While Carbon is a very capable and effective filtration media, it does not remove most contaminants immediately on contact, but requires sufficient contact time for optimal contaminant 'adsorption' to occur. To provide sufficient contact time at a reasonable flow rate needed for a point of entry application, the recommended minimum quantity of GAC (granular activated carbon) is 1.5 cubic foot, thereby utilizing a 10" X 54" tank equipped with a backwashing control valve. A 2 ft3 or larger system will further provide greater contact time while supporting higher flow rates.

UV filters do not remove bacteria, but instead, alter the bacteria's DNA, thereby preventing the bacteria from replicating. Since sediment and other small debris in the water can shade the UV light from reaching bacteria, and as a UV light can stop functioning without being immediately recognized, a UV system is often recommended as a supplementary bacteria control method, supplementary to a primary disinfection method such as chlorination.

I'm not familiar with chlorination systems but what kinds of chlorine would I need to place into the tank? Also would pump system be necessary or me manually adding the chlorine in the tank?

 

[Valveman]

The last well pump the top had blew off. I can see if i can find some pictures the last well guy sent to me. Also I've been looking up cycle stop valves and I've been seeing mixed reviews about them.

"top blew off" would mean the pump was hanging by the wire. That would be a strange cause of failure.

If you find anything negative about Cycle Stop Valves you are reading the fake news trying to make it controversial so you will click, as they get paid for the clicks. There are no negatives to a CSV, only negative people who don't want you to be happy.

Here are a few hundred reviews you should be reading.

Reviews – Cycle Stop Valves, Inc

cyclestopvalves.com

 

[jaws2003]

"top blew off" would mean the pump was hanging by the wire. That would be a strange cause of failure.

If you find anything negative about Cycle Stop Valves you are reading the fake news trying to make it controversial so you will click, as they get paid for the clicks. There are no negatives to a CSV, only negative people who don't want you to be happy.

Here are a few hundred reviews you should be reading.

Reviews – Cycle Stop Valves, Inc

cyclestopvalves.com

This is good to know about the cycle stop valves!!! Here's are some pics from the last pump that went bad.

 

[Valveman]

Got any more pics? Can't tell what the left one is. Are those two pics of the same pump?

 

[jaws2003]

Got any more pics? Can't tell what the left one is. Are those two pics of the same pump?

No. I wish I did. Its a top view of the pump. Those are the only two pics that my well guy had sent to me but they are of the same pump.

 

[Valveman]

The top is not blown off of the picture on the right. If that is the same pump it must just e the check valve inside the pump that is missing. Check valve failure is not caused by the iron. Check valves fail from slamming shut and flying open as they do with the old air over water tank type systems.

 

[jaws2003]

The top is not blown off of the picture on the right. If that is the same pump it must just e the check valve inside the pump that is missing. Check valve failure is not caused by the iron. Check valves fail from slamming shut and flying open as they do with the old air over water tank type systems.

Thank you sooo much!!! I'm glad I came here as am learning new things and gaining knowledge. It's misinformation in my local area that I'm being told that makes me angry. So correct me if I'm wrong this all still leads back to still getting the cycle stop valves and converting to a bladder style tank? Then that will solve a lot of my woes with the well?

 

[Valveman]

Lol! A Cycle Stop Valve solves nearly every problem associated with a pump system. It is called a "disruptive" product because it makes pumps last longer, uses smaller pressure tanks, and solves nearly every pump system problem one could encounter. It would be similar to someone making a carburetor that could make any car get 100 MPG and last a million miles. The car industry would do anything, put out as much "misinformation" as possible, to keep you from even trying one. That is exactly whey you hear so much misinformation about the Cycle Stop Valve as well. I have a pump system with a Cycle Stop Valve that hasn't been touched since 1982. If all pumps lasted that long many pump companies would go out of business, which is the real reason they don't want you trying a Cycle Stop Valve.

 

[jaws2003]

Lol! A Cycle Stop Valve solves nearly every problem associated with a pump system. It is called a "disruptive" product because it makes pumps last longer, uses smaller pressure tanks, and solves nearly every pump system problem one could encounter. It would be similar to someone making a carburetor that could make any car get 100 MPG and last a million miles. The car industry would do anything, put out as much "misinformation" as possible, to keep you from even trying one. That is exactly whey you hear so much misinformation about the Cycle Stop Valve as well. I have a pump system with a Cycle Stop Valve that hasn't been touched since 1982. If all pumps lasted that long many pump companies would go out of business, which is the real reason they don't want you trying a Cycle Stop Valve.

Wow!!! That was 2 years before I was born. Lol. That's a good thing. I still want the cistern as well to catch rainwater but I see that adding the bladder style pressure tank and then the cycle stop valve can be a great combination to the pump system.