Old Ceiling Fan Connections
- Thread starter Stu Habermehl
- Start date
That was possibly a light before it was a fan and it had power coming in from the right Romex along with a red wire to switch the light, then the power would continue on to the next location thru the Romex on the left. However it looks like someone added a switch loop, or changed the outgoing line to a switch loop, but did it backwards from code. The white wire that is taped with black should have connected to the power, then to the switch and returned to the ceiling on the black.
This is a guess mind you which is the best that can be done without more information. Proceed carefully when you open a box and find non standard workmanship, you cannot assume anything. Lots of DIY work is trial and error and when uncovered should be completely traced and checked out and any hazards and violations fixed, even if it means ripping it out and starting over.
If that line was converted to a switch loop that means it no longer brings neutral into the box where the hot is. If a neutral was needed there they could have tied into the neutral of a different circuit, or to ground, both of which are violations and serious shock hazards.
Is the box a fan rated box with #10 screws?
Are both switches in the same box and do both of those Romex's show up in that box?
This is a guess mind you which is the best that can be done without more information. Proceed carefully when you open a box and find non standard workmanship, you cannot assume anything. Lots of DIY work is trial and error and when uncovered should be completely traced and checked out and any hazards and violations fixed, even if it means ripping it out and starting over.
If that line was converted to a switch loop that means it no longer brings neutral into the box where the hot is. If a neutral was needed there they could have tied into the neutral of a different circuit, or to ground, both of which are violations and serious shock hazards.
Is the box a fan rated box with #10 screws?
Are both switches in the same box and do both of those Romex's show up in that box?
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Afjes
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One thing to always remember is that a white wire is not always a neutral. So yes, in this case especially since the white wire in the 2 wire Romex is being used as a hot since it was marked with black tape to indicate specifically that it is being used as a hot wire in this case.
I agree, the 3 wire romex (red, black, white) on the right is bringing power in. The hot wire (black) is connected to the black wire hot on the 2 wire (should actually be connected to the hot wire white) then it goes down to the switch and back up on the white (it should come back up on the black wire). This is a switch loop. Switch loop the power comes in on the white wire (remarked as hot) and then back up to the light with the black wire as per code.
The 3 wire red feeds either the light or fan and the 2 wire switch loop feeds the other. So the power originates from the switch box. This is how I am interpreting your diagram.
By the way when I or others (usually) refer to the number of wires we usually don't include the ground in the count as that really tends to confuse many. It is just known that there is a ground in the count. So when mentioned 2 wire it means 3 including the ground wire.
A.) 12/2 Romex for example: would be a black wire, white wire and a bare wire = 3 wires total.
B.) 12/3 Romex for example: would be a black wire, white wire and a bare wire and a red wire = 4 wires total.
Also, you state the diagram shows wires in the junction box. We are talking that this is the light fixture box and not a junction box. Just want to clear that up. A junction box can have a device in it but usually when we refer to a junction box it is a box that just contains wires and not device as a light, switch etc.
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One thing to always remember is that a white wire is not always a neutral. So yes, in this case especially since the white wire in the 2 wire Romex is being used as a hot since it was marked with black tape to indicate specifically that it is being used as a hot wire in this case.
I agree, the 3 wire romex (red, black, white) on the right is bringing power in. The hot wire (black) is connected to the black wire hot on the 2 wire (should actually be connected to the hot wire white) then it goes down to the switch and back up on the white (it should come back up on the black wire). This is a switch loop. Switch loop the power comes in on the white wire (remarked as hot) and then back up to the light with the black wire as per code.
The 3 wire red feeds either the light or fan and the 2 wire switch loop feeds the other. So the power originates from the switch box. This is how I am interpreting your diagram.
By the way when I or others (usually) refer to the number of wires we usually don't include the ground in the count as that really tends to confuse many. It is just known that there is a ground in the count. So when mentioned 2 wire it means 3 including the ground wire.
A.) 12/2 Romex for example: would be a black wire, white wire and a bare wire = 3 wires total.
B.) 12/3 Romex for example: would be a black wire, white wire and a bare wire and a red wire = 4 wires total.
Also, you state the diagram shows wires in the junction box. We are talking that this is the light fixture box and not a junction box. Just want to clear that up. A junction box can have a device in it but usually when we refer to a junction box it is a box that just contains wires and not device as a light, switch etc.
Also, the fan is on one circuit not multiple. If the fan/light unit is connected to one breaker it is on the same circuit. (in simple terms). A fixture box such as for a switch or light can have multiple circuits in it but in this case it is only one circuit.
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It's only the insulated conductors that are called out. So a 12/2 Romex would have 3 conductors total. 2 insulated and one bare while a 12/3 SO cord would have also have 3 conductors with all 3 being insulated.
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