Not seeing water in brine tank after a power outage during a routine regeneration?

[timofeewho]

hi all, so there was a power outage at my place overnight and into the morning during when the Clack water softener was doing its routine regeneration

i woke up in the morning with the power still out and the softener off, but gurgling water sounds going in/out of the softener. i assumed that it was caught in a backwash cycle since water was being dumped into our sump pit? so i closed the pipes into/out of the softener while waiting for power to get restored

after power got restored, i plugged the softener back, reopened the pipes, and notice that the panel continued to countdown the regeneration (was ~30m remaining and displayed 'DN'?), but nothing was really happening. having no idea what to do at this point, i just let the regeneration run its course, reset the clock after, and everything seemed back to normal

fast forward a few days to today, i noticed that the brine tank didn't have any water / brine solution in there, which i normally notice some of whenever i refill it with salt

i guess what i'm wondering is, should i have done anything else after the regeneration was interrupted? and should there constantly be water in the tank? is there any cause for concern here?

thanks

 

[Reach4]

One way would be to trigger a new regen. As part of that, it will refill the brine tank.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[timofeewho]

One way would be to trigger a new regen. As part of that, it will refill the brine tank.

gotcha, pardon this dumb question, but is that when the brine tank gets filled with water?

i just checked the Clack panel and it's currently flashing 'REGEN TODAY', should i expect it to fill with water later tonight then?

thanks

 

[Bannerman]

The control valve utilizes an electric motor to advance the valving from one position to the next during each regeneration cycle. As a capacitor is utilized to maintain power for the clock and computer, there is insufficient power to power the motor to advance the valving during an outage, so the valve will have continued to remain in the same stage of regeneration for the entire remaining time of the outage.

As the power outage was extended, and as you needed to reset the clock, this then confirms the capacitor did not supply power for the entire duration of the outage. When power was restored, with the computer ram memory lost due to lack of power, the controller probably could not identify which regeneration position it was in, and so likely proceeded to advance the valving to the Service position, thereby skipping over the Brine Fill stage, which is typically the final stage of each regeneration cycle.

As you don't know which stage of regeneration it had been stuck-in, you won't know if there were other regeneration stages in addition to Brine Fill that were also not completed.

As Reach4 suggested, perform a manual regeneration, which will cause an entire Regeneration cycle to be completed.

As there is no brine currently within the brine tank, you could simply use a bucket or jug to first pour two gallons of water into the brine well (plastic tube within the brine tank), then wait 30-minutes before initiating a manual regeneration, or wait for the automatic regeneration to be completed tonight. The wait time will provide time for 6lbs salt to become dissolved, which I expect should be more than sufficient to regenerate any resin capacity that became depleted through soft water use, after power was restored and after the control valve returned to the Service Position.

Once the full regeneration cycle has completed, the brine tank should then contain the usual amount of water to create the appropriate amount of brine for use during the next future automatic regeneration cycle.

 

[Reach4]

gotcha, pardon this dumb question, but is that when the brine tank gets filled with water?

Yes. Usually at the end of the regen, although it is configurable to be at the start, then wait, then proceed.

i just checked the Clack panel and it's currently flashing 'REGEN TODAY', should i expect it to fill with water later tonight then?

Yes. Apparently it did not record as being regenerated last night, which is what I would have expected.

Come to think of it, maybe you should do two regens. One to refill the tank, and the other to actually regenerate the resin.

The other way to refill the tank is to pour in the right amount of water. In that case, you would have to determine the right amount of water, measure that out, and then pour. The right amount might be 4 gallons, which would correspond to a 54x10 tank using 8 lbs/cuft of resin. Ideally you would pour that down the brine tube to avoid wetting the upper salt too much.

I am also surprised that you had to reset the clock.

 

[timofeewho]

@Bannerman @Reach4

thank you both so much for your info so far! i guess it's important to add that i have a 10"x47" 40k water softener along with an 8"x44" carbon filter

if i were to do the manual regeneration, how much water would i need to add given this setup? and would i use the softened water out of the tap? or the bypass from the water main? the water source is municipality water in Toronto

thanks

 

[Reach4]

You probably have a 10x48 with 1 cuft of resin. So take the amounts we said, and multiply them by 2/3 (0.67)

I would refill with softened water.

 

[timofeewho]

You probably have a 10x48 with 1 cuft of resin. So take the amounts we said, and multiply them by 2/3 (0.67)

I would refill with softened water.

alright, you can probably tell that i'm worried about somehow breaking this system lol

would it also be fine for me to leave it alone and let it do its thing tonight and check it again tomorrow morning to see if there's brine in the tank?

thanks

 

[Reach4]

Adding more water than needed will consume more salt than needed on a 1-time basis.

There will be brine in the tank, but it would not hurt to check.

The question is whether the resin is regenerated enough. You could let it go, and trigger an earlier regen if you see signs of insufficient softening. Either way, you don't break anything.

 

[timofeewho]

Adding more water than needed will consume more salt than needed on a 1-time basis.

There will be brine in the tank, but it would not hurt to check.

The question is whether the resin is regenerated enough. You could let it go, and trigger an earlier regen if you see signs of insufficient softening. Either way, you don't break anything.

alright, yea, i also worry that the resin might not regenerate enough given how long it's been

just to clarify, you said to multiply the amount of water you guys suggested by 0.67 and pour it into the brine tube, you said 4 gallons and Bannerman said 2, which should i use to multiply? hehe

thanks

 

[Bannerman]

A 40K grain softener (total hardness removal capacity), will typically represent 1.25 ft3 of softening resin.

For efficiency, the usual recommended settings, will be to utilize 8 lbs salt per ft3 of resin, thereby requiring 10 lbs salt per cycle for 1.25 ft3 resin, to regenerate 30K grains of useable capacity.

As 1 US gallon water will dissolve 3 lbs salt, to dissolve 10 lbs will then require 3.33 gallons in the brine tank each cycle, so that amount (or 4 gallons rounded up) added into the brine tank, will be sufficient to regenerate 30K grains of capacity.

As brine had been transferred from the brine tank to the media tank during the power outage, that will typically signify regeneration of the depleted resin capacity had actually occurred, but as water continued to flow uninterrupted through the resin until power was restored, that water flowing to drain will have depleted some unknown amount of capacity.

As some further softening capacity will likely have been depleted once softened water flow resumed to your faucets after power was restored, we won't be able to estimate the full amount of capacity that is currently depleted and requiring regeneration.

Anticipating the extreme, to regenerate all 40K grains total resin capacity, will require 25 lbs salt, thereby requiring 8.33 gallons of water in the brine tank.

Regenerating that much capacity at one time, may result in the brine tank overflowing, and is likely to result in salty tasting water following completion of the regeneration cycle.

An alternative method will be to add ~5 gallons to the brine tank, wait ~ 1 hr to permit sufficient salt to become dissolved, then perform a manual regeneration.

Once the 1st manual regeneration has completed, there will then be the usual 3.33 - 4 gallons within the brine tank, so after waiting ~1 hr, initiate a second manual regeneration as Reach4 suggested, which will regenerate much of the remaining capacity that was not restored during the 1st cycle. The 2nd cycle maybe initiated directly before you depart for bed, thereby allowing the 2nd cycle to be completed before you rise tomorrow morning.

 

[Reach4]

just to clarify, you said to multiply the amount of water you guys suggested by 0.67 and pour it into the brine tube, you said 4 gallons and Bannerman said 2, which should i use to multiply? hehe

Either, or compromise. 2/3 of 3 is 2, for easy math.

Not critical.