new tank and sizing

[bubbazan68]

current set up an unknown name 12 gpm submersible that is about 130 foot down
giving me roughly 8 gmp topside
currently i have the hydro tank
( air must be manually recharged by emptying the water lines as there are no sniffer fittings)
but if i do any watering (sprinklers) the pump cycles about every 4 minuets.
i was advised to up date to a bladder tank and i now have a free to me

Amtrol WX-302 Well Pressure Tank​

32 gallon draw down at 40/60 good idea or bad?
less cycling but longer run time?

 

[RetiredInGueydan]

Free is good, and that tank has a 23 gallon draw down on a 40/60 switch. While providing less cycling when using this tank, by adding a Cycle Stop Valve it will eliminate cycling during watering. This longer run time is actually better for the pump rather than cycling on/off.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

A 32 gallon precharged pressure tank will hold about 8 gallons of water. It is possible that the cycling with the WX-302 could be about the same or more frequent than you have now.

What makes you think you are using roughly 8 gpm topside? Is that because it take about 38 seconds to fill a 5 gallon bucket, or what?

You could add a Scharader valve to let you add air with a compressor to your galvanized tank.

A CSV can make the output of the pump go lower during watering, and you can eliminate the cycling. The WX-302 is bigger than you would usually pick to use with a CSV, but free is good.

 

[bubbazan68]

A 32 gallon precharged pressure tank will hold about 8 gallons of water. It is possible that the cycling with the WX-302 could be about the same or more frequent than you have now.

What makes you think you are using roughly 8 gpm topside? Is that because it take about 38 seconds to fill a 5 gallon bucket, or what?

You could add a Scharader valve to let you add air with a compressor to your galvanized tank.

A CSV can make the output of the pump go lower during watering, and you can eliminate the cycling. The WX-302 is bigger than you would usually pick to use with a CSV, but free is good.

yes about 30 seconds to fill a 5 gallon bucket the WX-302 is an 86 gallon with a tag that says
40/60 32.1 gallon draw down.
there is a scharader on the system but the plumbing runs into the tank then out no T like bladder,
again free vs a CSV cost

 

[Reach4]

Yes,WX-302 is probably going reduce your cycling. The maximum cycling is when the water usage is 1/2 of what the pump produces in GPM. Less or more will lead to less cycling.

Set the air precharge to 2 psi under the cut-on pressure.

 

[Valveman]

yes about 30 seconds to fill a 5 gallon bucket the WX-302 is an 86 gallon with a tag that says
40/60 32.1 gallon draw down.
there is a scharader on the system but the plumbing runs into the tank then out no T like bladder,
again free vs a CSV cost

Free is good. But a WX302 only holds about 23 gallons at 40/60 pressure. With an 8 GPM pump and a 4 GPM demand that would cause a cycle about every 10 minutes. That would be 5 minutes of the pressure decreasing from 60 down to 40, and 5 minutes of pressure increasing from 40 up to 60.

With a CSV, no matter the size of the pressure tank, the pump would never cycle while using more than 1 GPM and the pressure would stay at a strong and constant 50 PSI.

Having an old hydro tank there may still be a bleeder orifice in the well. Switching to a diaphragm style tank without removing the bleeder may cause air in the system. Removing any check valve above ground may keep the bleeder closed if that is the case.

 

[bubbazan68]

Free is good. But a WX302 only holds about 23 gallons at 40/60 pressure. With an 8 GPM pump and a 4 GPM demand that would cause a cycle about every 10 minutes. That would be 5 minutes of the pressure decreasing from 60 down to 40, and 5 minutes of pressure increasing from 40 up to 60.

With a CSV, no matter the size of the pressure tank, the pump would never cycle while using more than 1 GPM and the pressure would stay at a strong and constant 50 PSI.

Having an old hydro tank there may still be a bleeder orifice in the well. Switching to a diaphragm style tank without removing the bleeder may cause air in the system. Removing any check valve above ground may keep the bleeder closed if that is the case.

every ten minuets is better then the 1 minuet 30 when watering with the current set up/

maybe i have just watched to many vids on the down side of CSV i don't know still on the fence.

no sniffer and no bleeder on current set up one of the many thigs done wrong.
75 feet to tank 75 feet back to well head bypassing well and another 140 feet to house with who knows how many 90's or t's
was 5 90's to the first hose bib and then a t up to hose bib and down to line that goes back toward well head creating a wall for the water to get even slower lol

 

[SuperGreg]

The only people i've met who don't like CSVs dont know how they work and have never used one.

 

[Valveman]

The only people i've met who don't like CSVs dont know how they work and have never used one.

Thank you!! And there is nothing I can do about that crazy person making all those disinformation videos unless I want to pay the ransom he is asking to have them removed. I will not pay his ransom. Youtube is owned by Google and they get more clicks for fake news than for real news so they will not help either.

I understand though. With all the fake news on the Internet the CSV sounds too good to be true. But it is! The CSV has been making pumps last longer and use smaller pressure tanks since 1993, which is exactly why pump companies hate us. Read our hundreds and hundreds of five star reviews and realize we cannot keep bad reviews off our site, we just don't have any.

 

[SuperGreg]

I got a CSV because of your posts here, so thank you! I love it.

I had a well guy at my house because I had the line from the pump relocated (long story, but I dug it up and it was unrepairable), and I showed him my then work in progress cistern tank and CSV. He said he'd rather do a VFD and he knew a guy who tried a CSV and his yard hydrant had too much pressure. Well, yeah, I tried to explain to him how the system worked but I don't think I got through to him.

 

[Bannerman]

Well, yeah, I tried to explain to him how the system worked but I don't think I got through to him.

VFDs are expensive, prone to breakdowns, and offer a releatively short lifespan. A VFD will typically create a lot of ongoing service calls and repeat sales for Well/Pump installers.

A CSV will be usually paired with a standard submersible or jet pump, allowing those lower cost pumps to function more reliably and for a longer lifespan than they would without a CSV. In addition, a CSV will also reduce wear on the pressure tank, pressure switch, check valve etc, a CSV will typically reduce repeated and ongoing service calls and income for Well/Pump installers.

Explaining how a CSV works, will not usually cause an installer to change his/her mind if they have a mindset that a CSV will negatively effect their ongoing income.

 

[Valveman]

The reason most pump men(and other professionals) don’t know much about what they do, is because its just work to them. They could care less about learning beyond what it takes to do the job. This and many other forums are full of enthusiasts. Those people treat it differently, much like a hobby. The knowledge levels of the two are worlds apart.

It took me a long time to realize that it is just a job to most pump men. Many will do what makes them the most money, even when they know there is a better way. But I am afraid most do not even take the profession seriously enough to try and educate themselves on how the different systems work. It is just a pump. Stick in a new one and get paid. Anything that could possibly make pumps last longer or be less expensive is a negative.

I appreciate you trying to explain it to the pump man. But the best thing you can do is educate yourself so when someone says something like "too much pressure on the yard hydrant" you instantly know they are not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Lol.

 

[bubbazan68]

so the only issue is in the home is PB pipping so looks like a csv and a pressure reducer till i can get the house free of poly b pipe

 

[RetiredInGueydan]

A CSV does not increase water pressure downstream of the installation, it just maintains a constant pressure during water usage. There should be no need for a PRV in the system due to CSV installation. Poly B that isn't installed in the attic or exposed to chlorinated water should have no issue with normal water pressure.