Need Help finding LEAK on long run through woods

[CountyJohn]

My system was installed 35 years ago through my neighbors wood. Total run is 1400 feet to my house and about 900 feet through a portion of his yard and a lot of his woods. While it was very clear where it was 35 years ago --- after logging in the woods and TIME, its location is not clear at this point. The run was made with 2 inch PVC with bell ends. A shut off valve was installed at 900 feet at installation in order to isolate sections of the system. Our leak is about 1 gallon per minute., or 1400 gallons per day. We still have pressure at the house. We have isolated the leak and it is "in the woods". The shut off valve at 900 ft is 140 feet above the METER below. I contacted a leak detection service and they said it was close to the meter however after a lot of digging in the neighbors yard we found nothing-----and they came back a second time and pointed to two other places but said there wasn't any indication around the first point that they had pinpointed. (???). Finding the leak has been difficult due to the snow on the ground previously and now all the snow melt AND the rain. For three days I have shut the system down for the day and then opened the meter valve. The meter spins "90mph" for 2minutes and flows 30gallons before the meter slows to its ONE GALLON leak rate. I think 30 gallons COULD indicate that the leak is about 150-175 ft from the valve at the TOP of the hill. I have found a couple of wet spots and plan to test them today with Chlorine strips to see if it is water from the meter or just run off. I may also dig a few 18" deep holes to see if they "fill".
If we cannot find the leak -- an alternative would be to run a 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 pex through the 2 inch buried pipe along with a "tracking wire" (for future issues if there are any).
Any advice on doing a better job searching?
Any advice on finding 500 or 1000 foot rolls of large diameter pex?
Thanks for any guidance you can provide.

 

[Breplum]

many leak locating companies use sniffers after inducing specific gas, rather than sound.
I think if you have to pull new pipe, it should be a fusion weld type pipe so there will be no actual cold joints. Hire pros.
I have seen more than my share of cracked 2" PVC Schedule 40 water pipes...it was cheap but everyone got what they paid for. Sorry for your pain.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[John Gayewski]

Supply house might be able to find your some pipe. I wouldn't waste anymore money looking for the leak.

 

[Sylvan]

When installing plastic pipe how come no one thought of using a tracer wire so you can pin point where the piping is and use a moisture detector to find the dampest spot?

 

[James L Gayhart]

My system was installed 35 years ago through my neighbors wood. Total run is 1400 feet to my house and about 900 feet through a portion of his yard and a lot of his woods. While it was very clear where it was 35 years ago --- after logging in the woods and TIME, its location is not clear at this point. The run was made with 2 inch PVC with bell ends. A shut off valve was installed at 900 feet at installation in order to isolate sections of the system. Our leak is about 1 gallon per minute., or 1400 gallons per day. We still have pressure at the house. We have isolated the leak and it is "in the woods". The shut off valve at 900 ft is 140 feet above the METER below. I contacted a leak detection service and they said it was close to the meter however after a lot of digging in the neighbors yard we found nothing-----and they came back a second time and pointed to two other places but said there wasn't any indication around the first point that they had pinpointed. (???). Finding the leak has been difficult due to the snow on the ground previously and now all the snow melt AND the rain. For three days I have shut the system down for the day and then opened the meter valve. The meter spins "90mph" for 2minutes and flows 30gallons before the meter slows to its ONE GALLON leak rate. I think 30 gallons COULD indicate that the leak is about 150-175 ft from the valve at the TOP of the hill. I have found a couple of wet spots and plan to test them today with Chlorine strips to see if it is water from the meter or just run off. I may also dig a few 18" deep holes to see if they "fill".
If we cannot find the leak -- an alternative would be to run a 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 pex through the 2 inch buried pipe along with a "tracking wire" (for future issues if there are any).
Any advice on doing a better job searching?
Any advice on finding 500 or 1000 foot rolls of large diameter pex?
Thanks for any guidance you can provide.

I live in the rural Texas Hill Country and I'm having a similar problem. I have a small leak that is averaging about 15 gallons per 24 hours. It's between the water meter and the house's shutoff/pressure valve which is about 486 feet. I don't really know the exact route of the 2 inch pvc but it probably was laid beside the electric utility line going uphill for about 400 plus feet and then doing a 45 to 90 degree turn and then about 86 feet heading to the home's shutoff valve. The last 86ft goes under our asphalt road and a limestone concrete porch.

The problem here is that most plumbers leak detection methods are coming out looking for wet spouts. I did find a San Antonio leak detection company that uses acoustic devices, but there's no guarantee they can find the leak and they want $1900 just to start. I've researched and it seems there is the hydrogen sniffer method, but no one seems to know about it here? Over in England I saw a plumbing company that inserted beta radiation(a very low level radiation) into water lines and then use a type of geiger counter to find leaks, but it must be banned in the U.S.

Anyway, hope you were able to find and fix your leak. I'm thinking the easiest method might be to have pex pushed through the pvc with a tracking wire. It's either that or tunnel another 486 feet which would include destroying parts of the driveway and limestone concrete porch.

 

[James L Gayhart]

many leak locating companies use sniffers after inducing specific gas, rather than sound.
I think if you have to pull new pipe, it should be a fusion weld type pipe so there will be no actual cold joints. Hire pros.
I have seen more than my share of cracked 2" PVC Schedule 40 water pipes...it was cheap but everyone got what they paid for. Sorry for your pain.

Breplum,

Looks like I'm in the same boat as County John. I live in a rural Texas Hill Country area and most plumbers don't have either hydrogen sniffers, acoustic detection leak devices, etc. It's a small 16 gallon leak per 24 hours so it's not a large leak at present. I guess the best method would be to find a company that can insert pex pipe into the 486 ft length of 2 inch pvc with a tracer wire? It probably would be cheaper than having to dig another water line trench and also destroy asphalt driveway and a concrete porch where the outside shut off valve.

Is fusion weld pipe the same as pex? Any suggestions and or advice would be appreciated.

Note: In researching leaks, I saw that over in England some plumbing companies use low level beta radiation tablets and then a type of geiger counter, but here in the U.S. it must be banned or not used by plumbing companies here? Seems that would be a more accurate method of leak detection?