Navien NPE 240A with Navicirc Valves

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Bannerman

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Luis,

The only reason for connecting the Cold Water supply and Recirculation Return together is when the home is not equipped with a dedicated return line so to utilize the home's cold water distribution lines as the recirculation return path back to the WH. To do this I anticipate you are using a NaviCirc or similar cross-over valve located at the farthest distance from the WH.

While the plumber was correct in installing a check-valve, the check valve was installed at an incorrect location. The correct location is the path between the recirculation return line and the supply line, farther right from where the CV is currently located. See page 12 of the NaviCirc Installation Manual for check valve placement.

https://www.navieninc.com/downloads?accessory=navicirc&type=accessories

As the Recirculation Return port is supplying the inlet to the pump which is then pumping towards the Cold Supply port, recirculation flow will be currently backwards in a short loop from the cold supply line to the recirculation line while the pump is operating and while no hot water is being drawn. A check valve located in the cold supply line after the return line will prevent that reverse flow so all of the pump's output will correctly flow through the home's plumbing as intended.
 
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Monguila

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Thank you very much for your reply. To simplify matters, is it ok to leave the current CV where it is and install a new one where required?
 

Monguila

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One more point of clarification, just to ensure that I understand where the CV should be. After reading the install manual, it looks like I can install the CV on the vertical line that runs from the supply line to the return port. Is this correct?
 

Bannerman

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The CV is NOT to be installed in the return line but is to be installed in the cold supply line.

A CV may be installed in the vertical supply line section as long as the CV is a spring-type similar to the one currently installed. Spring-type CVs may be installed vertically or horizontally.

Another type of CV is a swing-type which should not be used in a vertical pipe application but would be OK in the horizontal section of pipe such as where the Blue water hammer arrestor is currently Tee'd into.
 
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Monguila

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Thank you again for your responses and for putting up with my ignorance. On the new attached pic, I will install the valve (using the correct valve) on the vertical cold supply line, to the right of the expansion tank, correct?

20210205_084144.jpg
 

Monguila

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Cool. The plumber agreed to return and fix it. He maintains that the check valve can be anywhere on the cold line. However, I think this is because this was his first Navicerc install.

Once again, your very knowledgeable input is greatly appreciated!
 

Monguila

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The plumber stopped by today and added the valve. He insisted that a check valve could be anywhere in the cold feed, even if 5 feet away. I started to explain why the valve is required after the return line, but he stopped me. Not sure what to make of it.
 

Rezachapman

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Hello. New to the forum after searching for information on proper configuration for the Navien NPE-240A. I believe our installation was improper and have the plumber coming out (again) for diagnosis. Our issue is a lack of hot water in a reasonable time at the faucets despite having a NaviCirc-like (not Navicirc) line put in at the furthest faucet.

The plumber came by earlier this week and changed the recirculation mode from "internal" to "external" and "without external pump." He assured me there wasn't a need to connect the recirc line. From what I understand this requires a return line. In our home, there is no dedicated return line, hence the navicirc-like valve installation. However, without a connection to the return line of the NPE, none of this works. I am asking the plumber to install a return line from the existing cold line, as described in the manual.

The installer and someone who is supposed to be an expert with these Navien systems is coming by tomorrow. Before then I am hoping to get confirmation that in order for recirculation to work properly, the return line must be piped to the cold water line. Any help or suggestions are appreciated. Attached are some images of our setup.

EDIT: Also, in this setup the valve they installed doesn't have the 95-degree check control. What does this do compared with the actual NaviCirc valve?

navien_1.jpg
navien_2.jpg
 

Saltwave

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Hello. New to the forum after searching for information on proper configuration for the Navien NPE-240A. I believe our installation was improper and have the plumber coming out (again) for diagnosis. Our issue is a lack of hot water in a reasonable time at the faucets despite having a NaviCirc-like (not Navicirc) line put in at the furthest faucet.

The plumber came by earlier this week and changed the recirculation mode from "internal" to "external" and "without external pump." He assured me there wasn't a need to connect the recirc line. From what I understand this requires a return line. In our home, there is no dedicated return line, hence the navicirc-like valve installation. However, without a connection to the return line of the NPE, none of this works. I am asking the plumber to install a return line from the existing cold line, as described in the manual.

The installer and someone who is supposed to be an expert with these Navien systems is coming by tomorrow. Before then I am hoping to get confirmation that in order for recirculation to work properly, the return line must be piped to the cold water line. Any help or suggestions are appreciated. Attached are some images of our setup.

EDIT: Also, in this setup the valve they installed doesn't have the 95-degree check control. What does this do compared with the actual NaviCirc valve?
I currently have the same setup now with NaviCirc but not connected to recirculating line. Did you ever find out the proper way to set up? NaviCirc seems to work fine but based on what I’m reading here afraid that I could be damaging my unit or plumbing? Are there any risks for my current setup or should I turn off recirculating for now till I get it fixed?
image.jpg
 
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