My "new" WH had bad elements.

[Pete C]

Bought off CL.

Seller said he bought it from a guy who used it for a year before switching to gas. He had intentions of installing it after adding solar to his home, but decided against it because he will be moving soon. It sat in his basement for 4 years.

It looked good, the seller seemed like an honest guy, so I decided to give it a shot. 150 for a near new 80 allon GE Smartwater heater seemed a good deal. They retail for fairly close to a grand.

Put it in place, plumbed it, filled it, hooked up electric and....nothin'.

measured 240 to the top element, 0 to the bottom, which, I undersood to be normal. Both elements read open.

WTF? Did I just by a nice looking turd?

I contacted the seller. He was very apologetic and said that the guy that sold it to him promised it was checked out and even gave him a 30 day warranty. He said he would gladly pay for new elements.

So, off to Ace Hardware. They had high density only 5500 watt in stock.....and no element change tool.

Off to HD, got the tool. They had low density in stock, but I figured, screw it, all ready bought the high density.

Got home, did the "wet swap" on the lower. Didn't get too soaked, drained it enough to swap the upper without drowning and have a look inside.

Both elements looked near new. One had very minor corrosion, the other looked like it was installed last week. The inside of the tank looks beautiful.

So, the seller's story of it being lightly used, holds up. It now works perfectly.

I have a few questions though. How do 2 element fail yet still look near new. I'm the furthest thing from an EWH expert, but I am an electronics tech and have worked around things electrical, all my life and this just seems odd.

I would expect a bad element to look bad.

These don't.

Could sitting dry for a number of year cause them to fail? Could they have been subject to a high voltage surge?

And lastly, should I have spent the extra 4 bucks each for low density? Is there a substantial performance/efficiency difference?

I installed a treatment system a few years back. So well water is soft/ph balanced. So, I am hoping for a decent bit of life from this thing.

Here is a pic of the bad elements.

 

[Terry]

If at anytime the power was on and the elements were not submerged in water they can burn out in seconds.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Pete C]

If at anytime the power was on and the elements were not submerged in water they can burn out in seconds.

I understand that. I saw a pic of one that was energized dry and it melted the element. Is that not necessarily how it happens?

 

[Jadnashua]

Use a multimeter on the old elements you took out to see what their resistance is. If it's infinity, they're blown. If in the few ohm range, they should be okay. A loose connection could be an issue.

 

[hj]

Your "HWD" lower element could burn out is a couple of weeks, since it is the one doing 95% of the heating. I NEVER use HWD elements for the lowr one, only LWD or "long life" stainless steel ones.

 

[Pete C]

Use a multimeter on the old elements you took out to see what their resistance is. If it's infinity, they're blown. If in the few ohm range, they should be okay. A loose connection could be an issue.

Definitely infinity. No continuity at all. 10 ohms is normal for a 5500 watt element.

 

[Pete C]

Your "HWD" lower element could burn out is a couple of weeks, since it is the one doing 95% of the heating. I NEVER use HWD elements for the lowr one, only LWD or "long life" stainless steel ones.

If the lower does burn out, what would be the sympton? Slow recovery?

 

[Jadnashua]

Electric WH are generally setup so that only one element is activated at a time. When the tank first comes on, the upper one turns on to provide at least some heat. Once that one is satisfied, it switches to the bottom element which heats up the rest of the water. Convection does heat up things, but having the element near the outlet to start out, with the heated water lighter, it stays up there, so you'll get some faster that way.

If the thermostat is miswired, or faulty, it's hard to say what will happen.

 

[Pete C]

So, if I have this right....

Bottom element failure means your WH will work, but you won't get more than a few gallons before you start losing temp?

Top element failure, you likely won't notice, under normal operation, but if you either remove power, or use a lot to the point where the water temp gets low, the top element will never come on and the tank will go cold?

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

You brought this on yourself for buying junk off craigs list...
Go out and just buy the whole repair kit at lowes for 25 bucks..
it comes with 2 elements and both the upper and lower theromostats...

I buy them all the time just for the theromstats and dont even use the elements.....

just change it all out and move on with your life...

 

[Jadnashua]

The lower element doesn't turn on until the top one has been satisfied, so if the top one is bad, the bottom one will never be activated, whether is it good or bad. The elements could be fine, but the thermostat could be bad. Then, there could be a loose connection or something wired wrong.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

The lower element doesn't turn on until the top one has been satisfied, so if the top one is bad, the bottom one will never be activated, whether is it good or bad. The elements could be fine, but the thermostat could be bad. Then, there could be a loose connection or something wired wrong.[/QUOT


It could be this, and then again it could be that ,, and it also could be a combination of a bunch of stuff
Lowes sells the complete package with 2 elements and upper and lower thermostats for 25 bucks....

just change it all out and save yourself a lot of grief....
like is 25 bucks really gonna hurt you that much??

 

[Pete C]

You brought this on yourself for buying junk off craigs list...
Go out and just buy the whole repair kit at lowes for 25 bucks..
it comes with 2 elements and both the upper and lower theromostats...

I buy them all the time just for the theromstats and dont even use the elements.....

just change it all out and move on with your life...

The lower element doesn't turn on until the top one has been satisfied, so if the top one is bad, the bottom one will never be activated, whether is it good or bad. The elements could be fine, but the thermostat could be bad. Then, there could be a loose connection or something wired wrong.

Jadnashua,

Thank you for confirming how it works everything is currently fine. My last post was just to confirm the sequence of how it operates. Sounds like I ought to go ahead and upgrade the lower element soon to a low density one soon.

MPM,

I understand that when you buy CL, you are taking your chances. Not sure how closely you read the rest of this thread, but to update you, IMO, I bought a like new water heater at a very good price. I suspect that it may have been drained prior to removing power, causing both elements to fail.

No big deal as replacement elements are cheap and there are lots of very helpful people on the internet willing to take the time to assist DIY cheapskates like myself. And then there are assholes that just want to tell people they screwed up.

My first read of your post has me thinking you're the latter. If I am mistaken, my apologies.

I did buy two replacement elements. My WH is working flawlessly. I was just curious about a few things which have been answered sufficiently.

I suppose I do have one last question

Assuming this WH has approximately 1 year of use, should I go ahead and swap the anode now as well? I think I will. What is typical anode life, or is that highly dependent on water quality?

 

[Terry]

One year with the anode? That's like nothing. I would wait on that.
I would say that Mark is being "in the trades" playful. That's what lunch time sounds like when guys start ribbing each other.

 

[Pete C]

One year with the anode? That's like nothing. I would wait on that.
I would say that Mark is being "in the trades" playful. That's what lunch time sounds like when guys start ribbing each other.

Yes, Terry, you are right.

Kinda hard to complain about advice if you ain't paying for it.

Thanks to all for your help.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

dont worry about the anode.. its barely broken in at one year old

for 150 dollars being an 80 gallon GE electric heater you did not get hurt
at all...... but you wont find another one again as the 80 gallon electrics were
dis-continued about 6 years ago..


t

 

[Pete C]

dont worry about the anode.. its barely broken in at one year old

for 150 dollars being an 80 gallon GE electric heater you did not get hurt
at all...... but you wont find another one again as the 80 gallon electrics were
dis-continued about 6 years ago..


t

Thanks. When should I be concerned about the anode?

One other question. What are your thoughts on adding a blanket?

I have heard differing opinions. Some say they are worth it. SOme say that they cause premature external rusting.

Would like to hear the thoughts of the pros.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

the anode can be hell to get out especially after the unit gets some age on it..
I personally would not fool with it... It could take 2 men --one to just to hold the heater in place
while the other fellow uses a huge socket wrench and a cheater bar to budge the rod
we have had issues with the socket rounding out the nut trying to remove it---
I would leave it be.....
..
a blanket will always be a good idea for th elow cost of it
because it does save 25% per year on the heating
bill--

 

[Pete C]

the anode can be hell to get out especially after the unit gets some age on it..
I personally would not fool with it... It could take 2 men --one to just to hold the heater in place
while the other fellow uses a huge socket wrench and a cheater bar to budge the rod
we have had issues with the socket rounding out the nut trying to remove it---
I would leave it be.....
..
a blanket will always be a good idea for th elow cost of it
because it does save 25% per year on the heating
bill--

So what you are saying is, let it do it's thing....till it doesn't and eventually the tank will fail and you buy another?

It would seem to me that if it is going to come loose, best to get it over with. If it looks good, give it a few wraps of teflon tape and put it back. And if I just round off the nut, oh well, nothing lost outside of a little manual labor.

 

[Reach4]

It would seem to me that if it is going to come loose, best to get it over with. If it looks good, give it a few wraps of teflon tape and put it back. And if I just round off the nut, oh well, nothing lost outside of a little manual labor.

I agree, if your anode nut is accessible. Few ever change the anode. I had to use a second impact wrench, after the first one broke, to remove my anode on my WH that was several years old. When you put the anode back, you don't need nearly as much torque as they used. I think 10 to 15 ft-lb is plenty. I am not a plumber. I put in a Ceranode powered anode to avoid H2S generation.