Moving Sink Trap Angle....options?

[J Blow]

This is a pretty common question and the fact that I've read many of them and don't see the option I'm hoping for makes me think it isn't one...but here it goes.

I moved a double sink vanity about 6-8 inches so now the wall drain location is just far enough away that the J trap won't adjust enough to connect without some reconfiguration. It's the standard setup with a trap adaptor, tailpiece, etc. It seems the 'proper' solution is to remove the trap adapter and replace it with a 22.5/45 elbow but with such cramped working quarters I was hoping to find some sort of 45 degree joint that connects to the trap adapter via slip joint so I can then connect the tailpiece through that. I'm assuming this would be some sort of double slip joint unit as I've found the elbow below but wondering if I'm using it properly or that's not an intended application.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Oatey-P9665-1-1-2-x-1-1-2-45-Double-Slip-Joint-Elbow-White

Thanks!

 

[wwhitney]

So that depends on your plumbing code. Looks like South Dakota uses the UPC with some amendments, but I'm not sure. If they haven't amended the section, then you are limited to one slip joint fitting on the outlet side of the trap:

Chapter 10 Traps and Interceptors: Traps and Interceptors, 2018 North Dakota Plumbing Code | UpCodes

UpCodes offers a consolidated resource of construction and building code grouped by jurisdiction

up.codes

A solution might be the Pasco Freedom Arm, a 1-1/2" tubular trap arm that includes a 22.5 or 45 degree bend in it. See pages B-52 and B-53 of their catalog:

Products 2023

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Sponsor]

 

[J Blow]

So that depends on your plumbing code. Looks like South Dakota uses the UPC with some amendments, but I'm not sure. If they haven't amended the section, then you are limited to one slip joint fitting on the outlet side of the trap:

Chapter 10 Traps and Interceptors: Traps and Interceptors, 2018 North Dakota Plumbing Code | UpCodes

UpCodes offers a consolidated resource of construction and building code grouped by jurisdiction

up.codes

A solution might be the Pasco Freedom Arm, a 1-1/2" tubular trap arm that includes a 22.5 or 45 degree bend in it. See pages B-52 and B-53 of their catalog:

Products 2023

Cheers, Wayne

Hi, Wayne. Thanks for the thoughts. That looks like it would work. I was hoping to get this done without having to order something and wait so if I'm not tied to code (but still want good function) what would be the options you could see with being able to use a second slip joint fitting....something like I posted?

Thanks, again!

 

[Reach4]

What you propose would probably work quite nicely. If you posted a photo that included the trap and the trap adapter, then we could probably be more sure.

Another thing that can be useful is to get a slip joint double offset, and cut it around the middle. That might simplify. Pretty widely available.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Keeney-1-1-2-in-Plastic-Slip-Joint-Double-Off-set/1000383333 is a plastic one, and they also come in brass. With slip joint you can mix and match. Plastic is cheaper and easier to cut.

Maybe consider a view from below with your cellphone. To upload to this site, you will need to crop to no more that 1000 pixels. 600x800 is plenty big. Plus you would want the picture to be a JPEG that is compressed pretty well. I am not sure of the upper limit, but 200KB is small enough.

 

[J Blow]

Photos attached.

I went to the store and bought two sets of supplies - one is the double slip joint elbow I referenced above, the other is a threaded adapter that screws onto the marvel trap adapter so I can add a regular glued 22.5/45 pvc elbow and then glue another marvel trap adaptor to the other side. Is one way better than another?

Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

I am not familiar with that threaded adapter that screws onto the marvel trap adapter.

Then with a new trap, with a longer trap arm, you bring the U of the trap out farther from the wall, and feed the trap arm into that 45. Experiment as best you can without cutting.

One more thing: how much pipe is between the wall and the existing trap adapter? One thing that could also help is to cut that pipe, and glue on a 45, maybe a street 45. Or get a spigot trap adapter to fit a regular 45. The problem I could see then is the paint on that PVC might make it hard to get the 45 glued on. One more thing... there are also 22.5 degree bends.

Cutting that double bend would mean no new gluing, as long as things work as I envision it.

Maybe your existing trap would fit, but I am thinking it would be too close.

So my thinking would be to get a slip joint 45 cut from that double slip joint piece. I am thinking that

 

[J Blow]

Reach4, it's too close to the wall to really risk cutting it for me.

I am probably using the wrong term but the adapter is just a coupler that I am talking about threading on to the marvel....is really common. Feels too easy so probably wrong. Screw this on my trap adapter and then glue in the 22.5 and then the trap adapter to that again.

Also makes it so you can dismantle it if necessary.

 

[Reach4]

Yes, the ability to undo it if it does not work is good. I think each way we are discussing has that feature.

So maybe cut out a cardboard model of a 45. See how the trap will approach the line. Try swinging the U the other way.

Maybe use a toilet paper core or paper towel core for your trials.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/NIBCO-1...b-x-Spigot-Street-Elbow-C48082HD112/205799554 is a street 22.5, but other sellers have that readily available.

 

[J Blow]

Yes, the ability to undo it if it does not work is good. I think each way we are discussing has that feature.

So maybe cut out a cardboard model of a 45. See how the trap will approach the line. Try swinging the U the other way.

Maybe use a toilet paper core or paper towel core for your trials.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/NIBCO-1...b-x-Spigot-Street-Elbow-C48082HD112/205799554 is a street 22.5, but other sellers have that readily available.

Good ideas.....but since I already have enough 'parts' to do this job 4 times I'll be able to dry fit it pretty closely.

I'm just really questioning myself after reading over tons of others posing this question and not seeing someone thread on a coupler like this but instead cutting off the trap adapter among many other things.

Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

There is more than one right way.

Bet you wish you could get a trap like in my avatar.... that is a fake. They don't exist.

 

[Reach4]

Just thinking.... If I did want to fabricate one like that, I might take a rough brass slip joint p-trap, saw vertically thru the bottom of the U, bridge the cut ends with a short piece of type M copper pipe, and solder that in place. I expect it is not to code, but I also suspect it would work fine.

While thinking of potential unusual solution, how about getting a common polypropylene trap, and curving the trap arm? https://pipe.technoluxpro.com/en/sg...propilenovuyu-trubu-sposoby-rekomendacii.html says you can bend polypropylene with the help of some heat.

When bending some things, one technique to prevent the pipe from collapsing/buckling under the strain is to fill the pipe with sand. Use "sand bending" as a Google search term.

I am liking this bending idea more and more. Originally I was thinking of bending a brass p-trap trap arm, but if you can do it with plastic, that would be cheaper and probably easier.

 

[PlumbIt]

So that depends on your plumbing code. Looks like South Dakota uses the UPC with some amendments, but I'm not sure. If they haven't amended the section, then you are limited to one slip joint fitting on the outlet side of the trap:

Chapter 10 Traps and Interceptors: Traps and Interceptors, 2018 North Dakota Plumbing Code | UpCodes

UpCodes offers a consolidated resource of construction and building code grouped by jurisdiction

up.codes

A solution might be the Pasco Freedom Arm, a 1-1/2" tubular trap arm that includes a 22.5 or 45 degree bend in it. See pages B-52 and B-53 of their catalog:

Products 2023

Cheers, Wayne

Hi Wayne - I can't seem to get a straight answer on this forum. I'm an electrician by trade and appreciate your posts on Mike Holt.
I have a standard trap adapter at wall under kitchen sink. I need a jog to the left and a slip 45 is not allowed after trap (only one slip is allowed). I was thinking to extend the trap adapter by attaching a Female NPT to glue ABS adapter to the existing trap adapter. From that, glue up a 45 jog to the left and another trap adapter on the end. Then the polypropylene trap can attach to the extended trap adapter. Is there any reason that that is an issue? Some on this forum are saying to cut the existing off and put the 45 before the adapter at the wall. But I see no reason to cut anything.

 

[wwhitney]

I have a standard trap adapter at wall under kitchen sink. I need a jog to the left and a slip 45 is not allowed after trap (only one slip is allowed).

I am reconsidering the interpretation of UPC 1003.2, which says:

"1003.2 Slip Joint Fittings A maximum of one approved slip joint fitting shall be permitted to be used on the outlet side of a trap, and no tubing trap shall be installed without a listed tubing trap adapter. Listed plastic trap adapters shall be permitted to be used to connect listed metal tubing traps."

The question is whether the "listed tubing trap adapter" counts as your "one approved slip joint fitting", or not. There's an argument to be made that the "one approved slip joint fitting" is in addition to the "listed tubing trap adapter," as otherwise the requirement could more simply be worded something like "a tubing trap shall be installed with a listed tubing trap adapter and no other slip joint fittings on the outlet set of the trap."

So you may want to clarify with your AHJ which interpretation they are using, as one slip 45 might be allowed.

I was thinking to extend the trap adapter by attaching a Female NPT to glue ABS adapter to the existing trap adapter. From that, glue up a 45 jog to the left and another trap adapter on the end.

This supposes that an ABS male adapter and ABS trap adapter have the same threads, but I think that is true. I was going to say that thread joints between ABS aren't allowed, but I see that per UP 705.1.3 they are allowed. So I guess that's OK, if you use an appropriate ABS-safe pipe joint compound on the threaded joint.

I think the preference for cutting off the trap adapter and extending via glue joints is that it seems more robust. Introducing a threaded joint into the mix is just another variable and possible source of failure.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[PlumbIt]

I am reconsidering the interpretation of UPC 1003.2, which says:

"1003.2 Slip Joint Fittings A maximum of one approved slip joint fitting shall be permitted to be used on the outlet side of a trap, and no tubing trap shall be installed without a listed tubing trap adapter. Listed plastic trap adapters shall be permitted to be used to connect listed metal tubing traps."

The question is whether the "listed tubing trap adapter" counts as your "one approved slip joint fitting", or not. There's an argument to be made that the "one approved slip joint fitting" is in addition to the "listed tubing trap adapter," as otherwise the requirement could more simply be worded something like "a tubing trap shall be installed with a listed tubing trap adapter and no other slip joint fittings on the outlet set of the trap."

So you may want to clarify with your AHJ which interpretation they are using, as one slip 45 might be allowed.


This supposes that an ABS male adapter and ABS trap adapter have the same threads, but I think that is true. I was going to say that thread joints between ABS aren't allowed, but I see that per UP 705.1.3 they are allowed. So I guess that's OK, if you use an appropriate ABS-safe pipe joint compound on the threaded joint.

I think the preference for cutting off the trap adapter and extending via glue joints is that it seems more robust. Introducing a threaded joint into the mix is just another variable and possible source of failure.

Cheers, Wayne

Thank you. Finally an answer to my dilemma. The threaded ABS connection appears to be robust - plenty of threads. And the preference among most plumbers and homeowners is a poly P Trap. I believe that I am going to extend the existing adapter with ABS to eliminate the slip 45 (almost every plumber says that is not to code), and use the existing poly trap, as opposed to an ABS tubular trap for example. I like the ABS tubular traps because they appear robust - but the 90 trap arm is glued on the outlet side and that makes maintenance more difficult.

 

[PlumbIt]

Called Charlotte. They seem kind of on the fence re trap adapter to female - question apparently never came up. But reviewing their products, there doesn't seem much difference between the traditional male and the male trap adapter. I dry fit it and it appears to be a solid and functional way to offset the trap adapter without cutting the pipe. In any case, other than a few bucks, it can always be undone without damage. I went for it.